The Wound Save - a combination of damage save and wound points

[RangerWickett]

I like the damage save, but I don't think it's appropriate for a D&D style game. Still, I think it's an improvement over hit points from a game play perspective, so here's my brainstorm on how to adopt the damage save for D&D-style fantasy.

The damage save system, if I recall it correctly, works something like this:

[sblock]You have AC like normal, and people make attacks as normal, but you don't have hit points. You have a Damage Save, which is roughly equivalent to a Fortitude save. Each attack has a Damage Rating, and whenever you're hit in combat, you must make a Damage Save against a DC equal to the attack's Damage Rating.

Say you're hit by something with a Damage Rating 15. You have a +3 Damage Save. If you succeed, you take no detrimental effect. If you fail by 1 to 5, you'll take a Hit, which incurs a -1 penalty to future Damage saves. If you fail by 6 to 10, you take a Hit and are stunned for one round. If you fail by 11 to 15, you take a Hit, are stunned, and fall unconscious. If you fail by 16 or more, you just die.

If you roll a 12, you're fine. If you roll an 11, you'll take a Hit. If you roll a 6, you'll take a Hit and be stunned. If you roll a 1, you'll take a hit, be stunned, and pass out. You can't die from this attack unless you've already failed a few saves.

(I could be wrong with the specific numbers and detrimental effects, but I think I got the gist right).[/sblock]


Here's my version.

Wound Save
Creatures have wound points, and whenever you hit a creature, you either deal wound damage, or cause it to suffer a 'Hit,' which (among other things) reduces its ability to resist future attacks. The ability to dodge is influenced by your level, but the amount of Wound Points a creature has is based only on size.


A creature's Touch Defense is: 10 + class-based Dodge bonus + Dexterity - size + various.

A creature's Hit Defense is: 10 + class-based Dodge bonus + Dexterity + size + various.

A creature's Wound Defense is: 10 + class-based Dodge bonus + Dexterity + size + armor + various.

(Size functions differently from in the core rules. Here, big is good when avoiding hits and wounds, because it's harder to deal significant damage to larger creatures. A large creature has a lot of hit points, and it also has the benefit of its internal organs being protected by more meat. However, small size is a bonus and large size is a penalty when trying to avoid touch attacks.)


A creature's Attack Bonus attack is: d20 + base attack bonus + Strength (or Dex for some weapons) + damage rating for weapon + size + various.

A creature's Touch Attack Bonus is: d20 + base attack bonus + Strength (or Dex for some weapons) + size + various.

(On the attack, size is only ever a good thing. Small creatures might have a high Dexterity, but that is independent of their size. On the offensive, size makes it easier for you to reach your target, gives you more leverage, and makes your weapons cover a larger area. Sure, a giant's club might not be precise, but if the club is four times as big as a halfling, he doesn't need to be that precise.)


When you make a normal attack, there are three outcomes:

1. Your attack roll does not match their Hit Defense. You miss, and there's no effect.
2. You match their Hit Defense. They take a Hit, and suffer a -1 penalty to attack rolls and Defense.
3. You match their Wound Defense. They take a Hit, and take 1 point of Wound damage, plus another 1 for every point your attack roll bypassed their AC.


In this system, taking a 'Hit' represents getting unbalanced in combat, getting fatigued, taking inconsequential hits that just slow you down but won't themselves kill you. Wound Points represent actual physical injury.

You have Wound Points based on your size - as a baseline, Medium creatures gets 20, Small 8, Tiny 3, Diminutive 1, Large 50, Huge 120, Gargantuan 300, Colossal 800 - modified by perhaps the Toughness feat, your race, and other stuff.

Knockout and Death: Whenever you take Wound damage, you must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt, with a bonus equal to your current Wound Points) or be knocked unconscious. If you fail by more than 10, you are Dying.

A creature that is Dying must make a Fort save (DC 10) each round, with a bonus equal to his current WP. If the creature succeeds, it stabilizes and is no longer Dying. If the creature fails, it takes 1 Hit and 1 pont of wound damage. If it fails by 10 or more, it dies.

For example, you're a typical human with 20 WP and a Fort save of +0. You're hit for 8 damage. You make a Fort save (d20+12 vs. DC 18). You make the save and are fine. Then you're hit for 8 more damage. You make a Fort save (d20+4 vs. DC 18), and again succeed.

You are hit a third time for 8 damage, dropping you to -4 WP. You must now make a Fort save (d20-4 vs. DC 18). You roll a 14, and simply fall unconscious, not die.

Critical Wounds: Whenever you take damage that is over half your full Wound Points, you must make a Fortitude save (DC yet to be determined) or else suffer a debilitating wound, like losing an eye or a limb, having a few ribs broken, etc. (This section is under construction.)

Note that it is quite possible for a high-level character to survive well into negative hit points, especially if each blow is dealing only a few points of damage.


Unbalance: You can attempt to simply unbalance a foe, instead of trying to injure him. You make a Touch Attack against your foe's Hit Defense. If you succeed, they take 1 subdual Hit, plus another Hit for each point your attack roll exceeded their Hit Defense. These subdual Hits last only until the end of combat.


Healing and Recovery: Creatures heal a number of Wound Points per day based on size. I'm thinking 10% of max WP. A creature heals 1 Hit for each hour of rest, plus 1 per X levels. Magical healing can improve both of these. (Under construction.)


Other Rule Options: Energy attacks would have a damage rating, and you'd make an attack roll to see how well you hit. Energy attacks ignore armor. What about a creature falling into fire or lava, though? What about things that aren't actively attacking? I suppose in those instances there'd be a damage rating, and you'd need to make a Reflex save to avoid the damage. Does that sound right? (Under construction.)

In Conclusion:
This system will no doubt require a substantial rewrite of the game's rules, but I wonder if it has merit. Tell me what you think, and if you have any suggestions for ways to improve this system

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Hi

Great idea. This is very very close to a system that I would find ideal. Especially as I think it would be very easy to make it very modular to ones needs.

Creatures have wound points, and whenever you hit a creature, you either deal wound damage, or cause it to suffer a 'Hit,' which (among other things) reduces its ability to resist future attacks. The ability to dodge is influenced by your level, but the amount of Wound Points a creature has is based only on size.

I would say based on Con and size, see below.

A creature's Touch Defense is: 10 + class-based Dodge bonus + Dexterity - size + various.

A creature's Hit Defense is: 10 + class-based Dodge bonus + Dexterity + size + various.

A creature's Wound Defense is: 10 + class-based Dodge bonus + Dexterity + size + armor + various.

I would make class based dodge equal to BAB, to create a Combat score as in True20. The reason being it should be as difficult for two 20th level fighters to hit each other as it is for two second level fighters.

A creature's Attack Bonus attack is: d20 + base attack bonus + Strength (or Dex for some weapons) + damage rating for weapon + size + various.

A creature's Touch Attack Bonus is: d20 + base attack bonus + Strength (or Dex for some weapons) + size + various.

(On the attack, size is only ever a good thing. Small creatures might have a high Dexterity, but that is independent of their size. On the offensive, size makes it easier for you to reach your target, gives you more leverage, and makes your weapons cover a larger area. Sure, a giant's club might not be precise, but if the club is four times as big as a halfling, he doesn't need to be that precise.)

Maybe roll the damage dice along with the d20? (Instead of having a fixed damage rating).

You have Wound Points based on your size - as a baseline, Medium creatures gets 20, Small 8, Tiny 3, Diminutive 1, Large 50, Huge 120, Gargantuan 300, Colossal 800 - modified by perhaps the Toughness feat, your race, and other stuff.

Maybe Con times something from size. Either from Unearthed Arcana or Grim n’ Gritty.
But here I think you could start being modular and make it somewhat hit dice dependent. Not sure how.

Critical Wounds: Whenever you take damage that is over half your full Wound Points, you must make a Fortitude save (DC yet to be determined) or else suffer a debilitating wound, like losing an eye or a limb, having a few ribs broken, etc. (This section is under construction.)

How ‘bout critical hits in general?

Unbalance: You can attempt to simply unbalance a foe, instead of trying to injure him. You make a Touch Attack against your foe's Hit Defense. If you succeed, they take 1 subdual Hit, plus another Hit for each point your attack roll exceeded their Hit Defense. These subdual Hits last only until the end of combat.

This doesn’t work IMO. It’s way better than just attacking. Anyone would unbalance first, and then attack, as the lower defense would result in way better damage.

Other Rule Options: Energy attacks would have a damage rating, and you'd make an attack roll to see how well you hit. Energy attacks ignore armor. What about a creature falling into fire or lava, though? What about things that aren't actively attacking? I suppose in those instances there'd be a damage rating, and you'd need to make a Reflex save to avoid the damage. Does that sound right? (Under construction.)

d20 + damage dice? For non-actively attacking things, dam. Dice and save?

In Conclusion:
This system will no doubt require a substantial rewrite of the game's rules, but I wonder if it has merit. Tell me what you think, and if you have any suggestions for ways to improve this system

I need to look into the Grim n’ Gritty by Ken Hood (4th edition). It has a lot in common with this that can be used for inspiration.
I really would like to develop this further.

 

[Dirigible]

This is at once spectacular and delicious, as if the Eiffel tower had been covered in chocolate.

* Something doesn't sit right about biggun's being intrinsically more likely to hit littleuns. Maybe it's a holdover feeling from normal D&D, but the hobbit should have an easier time avoiding the cave troll.

Perhaps you could take another leaf out of M&M. Creatres X (three, I think) or more size categories larger than their targets automatically get their attacks turned into area attacks, so even if they miss the target must make a Ref save or suffer half the damage of the attack.

* I adore the idea of the staged hit results.

* Critical Hits: Are you thinking of a flat DC or one based on the damage you just took? The flat DC leaped out at me first because it means high-level characters get a significant edge in survival thanks to their experience. But on reflection, it's probably to the way to go.

As Sorcica says, what happens on a nat20?

* Could the damage bonus for spells just equal spell level, nudged up or down a point or two depend on the other considerations (whether it's auto hit, area, etc.)

[Wound Points]I would say based on Con and size, see below.

I agree. Perhaps halve the number you've given and add Con?

This doesn’t work IMO. It’s way better than just attacking. Anyone would unbalance first, and then attack, as the lower defense would result in way better damage.

I think that's the idea, Sorc. Parry, feint, then thrust.

 

[RangerWickett]

A lot of this system is dependent upon the specific values of the different bonuses. It probably could not be implemented into core D&D without a huge overhaul (for one, classes would no longer add hit points; would monsters therefore not need hit dice?), but I think if we can make it work, it could be a good element to add to the D20 system, and could possibly be used in a stand-alone game.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Okay, having thought a bit more about it, here’s a few more ideas. In random order, just what springs from my mind.

Hit Defense: Maybe size should always be positive? For small creatures, they are more difficult to hit. For large creatures, for the reasons already stated.

Wound defense: I don’t think size should factor here, at least not for big creatures. They already get natural armor from size which affects wound def., so adding size as a modifier would be counting size twice, IMO.

When you suffer a hit: Maybe the penalty to attack and defense should only last this combat. After you’ve rested, you’re ready to get it on again. Maybe let wounds suffered deduct from attack and defense on some scale?

Number of wounds: it’s quite difficult to take out a peasant in one hit! This cannot be intentional. If wounds = Con for medium creatures, it gets more reasonable.

Critical wounds: As the rules are now, biggies will never get critted. You don’t do 400 points in one hit, especially not when the biggie has about 40 points of armor.
Maybe if dam. over Con, you suffer some crit.?

Maybe if you roll a nat 20, you can roll again and add this? This could be how to crit.

I always test ideas like this in my mind with a great red wyrm. The ultimate opponent. If it works with the dragon, there’s a good chance it works all round as well.

This could end up being very good....

 

[genshou]

I happen to be looking for an alternate damage mechanic similar to this, RangerWickett, for reasons I attempted to discuss (but didn't get into enough detail about) in a recent email to you (you know what I mean). I agree with Sorcica about the merits of the system, the drawbacks, and the best ways to fix them.

 

[Verequus]

I'm going to subscribe this thread, so I don't lose it. I hope, that this system will see the light one day, as it sounds really promising!

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Some more thoughts and suggestions, some places I'm repeating myself. This is how I could see such a system work.

A creature's Touch Defense is: 10 + class-based Dodge bonus + Dexterity - size + various.

A creature's Hit Defense is: 10 + class-based Dodge bonus + Dexterity + size + various.

A creature's Wound Defense is: 10 + class-based Dodge bonus + Dexterity + size + armor + various.

(Size functions differently from in the core rules. Here, big is good when avoiding hits and wounds, because it's harder to deal significant damage to larger creatures. A large creature has a lot of hit points, and it also has the benefit of its internal organs being protected by more meat. However, small size is a bonus and large size is a penalty when trying to avoid touch attacks.)

I would make class based defense equal to BAB, as I mentioned above. Then I would say, that size always should be a positive thing when determining hit defense.
I woudn't include big creatures size for wound defense, as they already got a bonus in the form of increased natural armor.

A creature's Attack Bonus attack is: d20 + base attack bonus + Strength (or Dex for some weapons) + damage rating for weapon + size + various.

A creature's Touch Attack Bonus is: d20 + base attack bonus + Strength (or Dex for some weapons) + size + various.

(On the attack, size is only ever a good thing. Small creatures might have a high Dexterity, but that is independent of their size. On the offensive, size makes it easier for you to reach your target, gives you more leverage, and makes your weapons cover a larger area. Sure, a giant's club might not be precise, but if the club is four times as big as a halfling, he doesn't need to be that precise.)

Haven't decided on this yet. In any case, some adjustment needs to be done from the core rules, as you otherwise get a double bonus from being small.

1. Your attack roll does not match their Hit Defense. You miss, and there's no effect.

ok

2. You match their Hit Defense. They take a Hit, and suffer a -1 penalty to attack rolls and Defense.

Ok. But I'm not sure... A gargantuan dragon might just ignore the pixie. By these rules, the dragon would still get a -1 to attack and defense.... Ideas, anyone?
Under any circumstances, I'd say that this penalty goes away after a few minutes rest (i.e. they last only the encounter).

3. You match their Wound Defense. They take a Hit, and take 1 point of Wound damage, plus another 1 for every point your attack roll bypassed their AC.

Yes. And here's where we really get to the meat. Lot of possibilities for options here.
To start out with RW's suggestion, I'd suggest the following wound points:

Creatures have wound points equal to their con. Size multiplies this as follows
Fine 1/16
Diminiutive 1/8
Tiny 1/4
Small 1/2
Medium 1
Large 2
Huge 4
Gargantuan 8
Colossal 16

Minimum 1 wound.
Option: You get your BAB as bonus wounds, before adjusting for size.
Option: Toughness feats increases wounds by 3. (maybe before síze as well)

Knockout and Death: Whenever you take Wound damage, you must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt, with a bonus equal to your current Wound Points) or be knocked unconscious. If you fail by more than 10, you are Dying.

A creature that is Dying must make a Fort save (DC 10) each round, with a bonus equal to his current WP. If the creature succeeds, it stabilizes and is no longer Dying. If the creature fails, it takes 1 Hit and 1 pont of wound damage. If it fails by 10 or more, it dies.

Save as suggested by RW.
For each time you get your multiple of Con in wound damage, you suffer a -1 to all attacks (and defense), skill checks, until healed.
A failed wound save maybe shouldn't be unconcious. Maybe -1 to attacks, defense and skills per amount failed by? Fail by 10, you're still dying.

Another option: Keep hit points and hit dice and all. Can be combined with the above as needed. So more than con in damage, you get penalties. And two possibilities. One, you are only in danger of failing a would save as your hit points (or concussion hit, to qoute Rolemaster) runs out. I like this. Two, you must save whenever you get you con or more in dam in one blow. I like this as well, although some way of making this save difficult even with many hp left must be found. Edit: The amount greater than your con could be a penalty to the save, which might be more flat than a regular wound save?
Keeping hp has the huge advantage of not being that different from core rules.

Critical Wounds: Whenever you take damage that is over half your full Wound Points, you must make a Fortitude save (DC yet to be determined) or else suffer a debilitating wound, like losing an eye or a limb, having a few ribs broken, etc. (This section is under construction.)

Some options: When critting, roll weapon damage and add str again or,
roll weapon damage again or,
on a nat 20 roll d20 and add result. Makes for some scary criticals!
I like the last option the most. It reminds me of Rolemaster/HARPs openended rolls and it's easier than trying to figure out how to confirm crits in the first two options.

Unbalance: You can attempt to simply unbalance a foe, instead of trying to injure him. You make a Touch Attack against your foe's Hit Defense. If you succeed, they take 1 subdual Hit, plus another Hit for each point your attack roll exceeded their Hit Defense. These subdual Hits last only until the end of combat.

Can't say I like this rule at all.

Healing and Recovery: Creatures heal a number of Wound Points per day based on size. I'm thinking 10% of max WP. A creature heals 1 Hit for each hour of rest, plus 1 per X levels. Magical healing can improve both of these. (Under construction.)


Other Rule Options: Energy attacks would have a damage rating, and you'd make an attack roll to see how well you hit. Energy attacks ignore armor. What about a creature falling into fire or lava, though? What about things that aren't actively attacking? I suppose in those instances there'd be a damage rating, and you'd need to make a Reflex save to avoid the damage. Does that sound right? (Under construction.)

Healing, recovery and spells are connected, IMO. Natural healing shouldn't be too hard to figure out. Question is how spell healing is going to work.

It's the same with damage dealing spells. Maybe use some rank a la True20/Blue rose?
But it needs to be compatible with Core D&D IMO. I will look into Elements of Magic to see if this can give some ideas. Unfortunately, I don't have EM: Mythic Earth. I have a feeling the spell system in there could give me the ideas I need.

If keeping hp, the spell problem is lessened. Other wise, each d4 of dam could be +1, each d6 is 2 and so forth. If a spellcaster rolls for fireball dam., the 10th lvl wizard will do 1d20 + BAB + 20 points of damage. That's 35 average, the same as a core wizard. You then save against that (reflex) and use the result however yu've decided to (wound save, penalties, etc.).
You could also let the wizard roll all damage dice and attack, increasing the damage, but letting armor help against most spells.

I've always been a fan of systems, where the degree by which you hit influence the damage done. I think this has the potential to be a great system for d&d in this regard.

Comments are more than welcome!

 

[RangerWickett]

As I answer these issues, understand that I'm planning this system to work with a version of d20, but not to integrate into current D&D. The way creatures would be statted and spells designed would especially need to be changed. It would be a big overhaul. But it's an interesting thought experiment, so I'll keep working at it for a bit.

I would make class based defense equal to BAB, as I mentioned above. Then I would say, that size always should be a positive thing when determining hit defense.
I woudn't include big creatures size for wound defense, as they already got a bonus in the form of increased natural armor.

Having size always be positive will not work. Why is it easier for a halfling to hit a human, and a troll to hit a human? Why are medium sized creatures the whipping boy of D&D? No, I stand firmly by the 'bigger is better' rule. Otherwise, we'd have to completely remove size from the equation, which ends up causing problems elsewhere. It should simply be harder to hurt big creatures.

Note that in this revised system, creatures would not automatically get natural armor bonuses just because. A cow would have natural armor +2. A rhino might have +6. A dragon would probably have +9, just above plate armor. But there'd be almost no need to go higher than that.

Yes. And here's where we really get to the meat. Lot of possibilities for options here.
To start out with RW's suggestion, I'd suggest the following wound points:

Creatures have wound points equal to their con. Size multiplies this as follows
Fine 1/16
Diminiutive 1/8
Tiny 1/4
Small 1/2
Medium 1
Large 2
Huge 4
Gargantuan 8
Colossal 16

Minimum 1 wound.
Option: You get your BAB as bonus wounds, before adjusting for size.
Option: Toughness feats increases wounds by 3. (maybe before síze as well)

Seeing as there's no HP, Toughness (if it still exists as a feat at all) would need to grant bonus Wounds. I think multiplying Con by a size modifier is clunky. My idea for Wound Points is that they represent physical size, body mass, and how much it takes to kill you, ignoring skill entirely. Your Defense (and ability to avoid taking 'Hits') is your skill at surviving in combat. If someone drops an anvil on you in your sleep, though, it will just go straight to your Wounds.

I dunno. I kinda want to avoid having multiplication be involved with determining wound points. Have you ever tried figuring out dragon hit points? Its tedious. "Okay . . . 24d12 . . . and his Con is 32, so that's an extra 11 x 24 . . . so 264 from Con and . . . 166 from hit dice . . . is 430." Having a flat rating, based on size, with perhaps a simple bonus/penalty from Con, would be easier.

Save as suggested by RW.
For each time you get your multiple of Con in wound damage, you suffer a -1 to all attacks (and defense), skill checks, until healed.
A failed wound save maybe shouldn't be unconcious. Maybe -1 to attacks, defense and skills per amount failed by? Fail by 10, you're still dying.

Another option: Keep hit points and hit dice and all. Can be combined with the above as needed. So more than con in damage, you get penalties. And two possibilities. One, you are only in danger of failing a would save as your hit points (or concussion hit, to qoute Rolemaster) runs out. I like this. Two, you must save whenever you get you con or more in dam in one blow. I like this as well, although some way of making this save difficult even with many hp left must be found. Edit: The amount greater than your con could be a penalty to the save, which might be more flat than a regular wound save?
Keeping hp has the huge advantage of not being that different from core rules.

I think you're removing the elegance of the system. If I can, I want you to only have to track 4 numbers.

Defense.
Attack bonus.
Number of hits.
Wound points.

Adding extra hits if you take extra wounds . . . I think we can collapse it all down to fewer scores, for easier calculation. Since any actual wound will also include an accompanying hit, I don't think you need to have high-damage wounds have multiple hits.

Some options: When critting, roll weapon damage and add str again or,
roll weapon damage again or,
on a nat 20 roll d20 and add result. Makes for some scary criticals!
I like the last option the most. It reminds me of Rolemaster/HARPs openended rolls and it's easier than trying to figure out how to confirm crits in the first two options.

A high roll deals more damage. A nat 20 is cool because it deals a lot of damage. You don't need to have it do anything more (though it would be fair to keep the 'nat 20 is automatically a hit' rule, so that if you have a hundred guys assail a dragon they'll wear it down even if they can't get through its armor).

Unbalance:
Can't say I like this rule at all.

I was just thinking of a possibility. It certainly should be an option. Note that it's much harder to unbalance than it is to simply hit and try to do damage, because you don't add your weapon's damage rating to your roll. I like the concept of being able to take someone out by outfighting them: you put them into a bad position, and you then can take them down. Perhaps unbalance should only last for a round.

Healing, recovery and spells are connected, IMO. Natural healing shouldn't be too hard to figure out. Question is how spell healing is going to work.

It's the same with damage dealing spells. Maybe use some rank a la True20/Blue rose?
But it needs to be compatible with Core D&D IMO. I will look into Elements of Magic to see if this can give some ideas. Unfortunately, I don't have EM: Mythic Earth. I have a feeling the spell system in there could give me the ideas I need.

If keeping hp, the spell problem is lessened. Other wise, each d4 of dam could be +1, each d6 is 2 and so forth. If a spellcaster rolls for fireball dam., the 10th lvl wizard will do 1d20 + BAB + 20 points of damage. That's 35 average, the same as a core wizard. You then save against that (reflex) and use the result however yu've decided to (wound save, penalties, etc.).
You could also let the wizard roll all damage dice and attack, increasing the damage, but letting armor help against most spells.

The point of the system is to have static wound points, instead of hit points that rise based on your level. Your defense is what keeps you from taking damage. A skilled adventurer is harder to hurt, but once he's hurt, he's just as vulnerable as any man. (Well, with a little bit of wiggle room for acts of heroism and such.) In this system, the WP are easy to visualize, easier than HP in D&D.

In D&D, a sword hits for 20 damage, but you've still got HP, so you're fine.

In this system, a sword either nearly hits you so you're easier to take out next round, or it hits for a few points of damage, but you're seriously wounded.

I've always been a fan of systems, where the degree by which you hit influence the damage done. I think this has the potential to be a great system for d&d in this regard.

Comments are more than welcome!

Well, for one, I've figured out how to handle spells, landslides, and other hazards that involve saves. Very quickly, because it's late, it goes like this.

Each attack spell has a damage rating. Fireball might have a damage rating of 5 (for example; the real number would need to be tweaked). A wizard (16 Intelligence) casts fireball at you, and you make a Reflex save. There are two DCs.

Touch DC - 10 + spell level + wizard's Intelligence bonus. (16)
Evade DC - 10 + spell level + Intelligence bonus + damage rating. (21)

If you meet the Evade DC, you take no damage. If you meet the Touch DC, but not evade, you just take 1 touch. And if you fail to meet the Touch DC, you take 1 hit and 1 wound, plus an additional wound for every point you failed by.

Natural hazards would work similarly, but would be prestatted. A small rockslide? Touch DC 12, Evade DC 16.

The numbers would of course be tweaked, but I think that's a good basis. Heck, even mental attacks could work similarly. . . . Give characters 'mental wound points,' and when you mind blast someone, you might stun them, or you might just lower their attack and defense. That's certainly more fun from a gameplay standpoint than 'save or be out of combat' spells like hold person.

Round-Up:
So basically, in this system, we have simplified combat that can be resolved a couple ways. One way is to wear your opponent down with weak hits that lower his defenses, and then cut him down. Another is to try to throw him off balance and then deliver a fierce blow. You can try to hit him with magic. Some spells might have high damage ratings, others might be harder to dodge but deal less damage.

Does this seem like a good basis from which to develop a system? Because this is not something you could shoe-horn into D&D. You'd have to build D&D-v.4 from the ground up.

 

[Bayonet_Chris]

Me too

I've been working on a system for months (on and off) and I figure I'll chime in. It has a lot of things in common with this approach...

I'm always coming up with permutations, but I'll post what I have at the moment. It's a bit piecemeal, so bear with me.

Attack = BAB + Size + Dex + Misc Mods/Range
Defense = 10 + Size + Dex + Armor Defense
Toughness = Size + Con mod + Armor Protection

Weapons have a damage rating, like True20, and have modified criticals (depending on the weapon) - so a longsword is a 3 (4/+2) - meaning you take 3+Str mod as your base damage, and for each 4 over the target's defense, you add 2 damage. A longbow is a 5 (5/+3) [it has a mechanical +2 strength bonus] and a great axe would be a 5 (5/+5). I intend to have a strength penalty to hit if you cannot match the weapon's base damage - meaning a 16 strength (+3) can weild a longsword with no penalty, but a 14 strength (+2) would have a -1.

Rolling your attack and adding your critical damage will give you the damage. The defender rolls Toughness + d20 DC 15+damage. I've redfined some terms - they're marked by asterisks. Stun Conditions are dazed (weak), stunned (moderate), and knocked out (strong) - just like charm effects in EoM. Making the stun save will result in the weaker effect. Making the stun save by 5+ will negate it completely. All Stun saves are Fortitude DC10 + wound modifiers.

If the roll is successful, no damage is taken. Doubling up a result will go to the next category. (An injured warrior receiving another injured result will become critically injured).
If the roll fails, weak stun (dazed* = flatfooted for one round - lose dex, no AoO)
If the roll fails by 5, bruised (-2 penalty to toughness, saves & weak stun)
If the roll fails by 10, injured (-4 penalty, moderate stun, fatigued)
If the roll fails by 15, critical (-8 penalty, strong stun, exhausted)
If the roll fails by 20, mortal (-16 penalty, strong stun, disabled - any strenuous action requires a new save DC15).
If the roll fails by 25, dead.

Fighter A (BAB 5, Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, longsword, chain shirt) +7 melee (6, 4/+2); Def 14; Toughness +6; Fortitude +5.
Fighter B (same)

Fighter A rolls 10 (total: 17), hitting Fighter B for 6. Fighter B rolls d20+6 vs DC 21. Fighter B rolls a 10 (total:16), failing the roll by 5. He is bruised and makes a DC10 Fortitude save at a +3 (5-2 for wounds), needing a 7 to remain OK. He does so and counter attacks.

Fighter B rolls an 18 (total: 25), hitting Fighter A for 10 (double crit = +4). Fighter A rolls d20+6 vs DC 25. He rolls a 9 (total: 15) and fails by 10. He is injured, takes a -4 penalty, and rolls a DC10 Fortitude save at +1 (5-4), needing a 9 to remain OK. He rolls an 11, beating it by 2, but is still dazed because of the moderate stun. He is flatfooted for a round. He still may attack while dazed, but his dex bonus to defense is gone and he may not make attacks of opportunity - it represents him being momentarily stunned and off balance, giving Figther B a momentary advantage.

Next round, Fighter A (dazed and injured) attacks, rolling a 4 (total: 11) and missing. Fighter B measures up and rolls a natural 20 (total: 27), beating Fighter A's current defense (12) by 15 - this does 12 damage. Fighter A is in trouble, needing to make a DC 27 damage save with a +2 (6-4 for wounds) - he rolls a 1, failing by 24 - just short of dying. Still, the wound is mortal and he is knocked out. His allies have one minute to help him before he rolls for trauma and (most likely) dies from his wounds.

I also do a post combat trauma save - Fort DC 20 + wound mods:
Fail: Winded
Fail 5+: Fatigued. Mortal wounds reroll if not resting.
Fail 10+: Exhausted. Critical and mortal wounds reroll if not resting.
Fail 15+: Unconscious. Critical and mortal wounds roll in 1d6 hours.
Fail 25+: Dead