Theurge-Smacking Goodness

[Technik4]

Ok, you think the Mystic Theurge is overpowered? Welcome to a custom smack-down thread. Prepare to impress us with the broken-ness by statting up a character with 10 levels of Mystic Theurge. Core Books only.

Assume a 28 point buy and starting gold as the DMG suggests. You have to pay for any spell in your spellbook beyond what you get for leveling up as an arcane caster.

Also include a "tactics" section, detailing your first 5 rounds of combat. Include what buffs you have cast on your allies and yourself.

Technik

PS- Note that as the Mystic Theurge is 3.5 we will be using the 3.5 version of spells as we know them. Hence, Harm, Heal, Poly-other are not the end all and be all, and Haste does not grant an extra spell per round.

 

[Fenes 2]

IMHO, smackdown capacity is not a valid criteria when judging if a class is overpowered. Too much of a class' power depends on the enviroment, i.e. how many combats are there per day? How many social or mystery adventures are there? How much time can be spent preparing or training? In my campaign, the sheer number of buff and utility spells at his disposal for non-combat situations and the low number of combat encounters per day would make the MT unbalanced no matter his combat prowess.

 

[Technik4]

I disagree. Most groups that run with buffs run with a lot, as it is. The mystic theurge at best insures that if those buffs get dispelled in-between fights, he can recast some of them. This is not, in my mind, a huge advantage, as the rest of the spellcasters will probably be advising rest and recuperation, to replenish their smaller pool of spells.

You say low number of combats and then that theurge is unbalanced. It would seem to me that that is just the situation that disfavors the Theurge, as he wants to fight all day because he wont run out of spells. A lower number of combats only serves to emphasize his lack of power as he will be casting weaker spells.

Utility spells are best kept on scrolls, which all spellcasters have acces to acquiring (or making themselves). Sorry, I really dont see how all those slots overpower the theurge, yet people insist they do. I'm merely asking to see 1 or 2 of these "overpowered" theurges, their spell and feat selection which make them "broken".

If you can't stat one out and show me the spells he will have access to, Im inclined to think its not as overpowered as people are saying.

Technik

 

[Nathan]

I you really want to prove that the MTh is/isn't too powerful, the restriction to ask for a Clr5/Wiz5/MTh10 combo is too narrow. Something like Clr3/Wiz7/MTh10 or Clr3/Wiz3/MTh10/PrC4 should also be allowed. Or any other combination involving the MTh10.

Nathan

 

[Fenes 2]

I would judge the MT overpowered in my campaign because, as I said, he has a great number of buff and utility spells for non-combat situations at his disposal. Eagle's Splendor, especially empowered or double empowered, makes handling that noble much easier. Detect Poison (several of them), Image spells, Mount, Unseen Servant, Invisibility, Tongues, Alter Self, that cleric spell that gives +10 to a skill check, Knock etc. would make a huge difference in my campaign (if I allowed all of them) and seriously undercut a rogue or bard.

Don't focus only on combat when deciding if a class is overpowered or not.

 

[green slime]

It doesn't suggest to you that the spell that grants +10 to a skill check is what is overpowered instead? Eagle's Splendour is available to a caster anyway. What makes it so dangerous for the MT to have this spell available?

 

[Darklone]

Could someone put together a MT wiz cleric with Divine Power, Righteous Might and Tenser Trafo and some other buff spells? That seems to be IMHO the worst combination possible...

 

[Destil]

Could someone put together a MT wiz cleric with Divine Power, Righteous Might and Tenser Trafo and some other buff spells? That seems to be IMHO the worst combination possible...

And even that shouldn't be to bad if persistant spell stays out of 3.5, given the durations.

 

[Darklone]

Prolly not, but the only problem I see with the class would be the possibility to combine arcane and divine buffs... Well, with enough splatbook goodness, you can already do that.

 

[green slime]

And even then such a combo would only be doable once or twice a day... After that the MT would be dead meat. In other words, more suitable as a NPC threat than a PC character on a stroll through the local Lich Incoporated HQ.

Would you really place all your eggs in one basket like that?