D&D (2024) They butchered the warlock in the new packet

[mamba]

The impact is that the less distinct each class is the blander the game becomes. I'm a player that enjoys variety and keeping things fresh.

The sorcerer and wizard already overlap so much that making the warlock closer to that design and farther from something unique is not a good thing.

I disagree, whether you have 2 spells after each short rest or 6 for the day makes no functional difference, apart from requiring short rests and creating an imbalance depending on how many there are. If everyone recharges on long rests nothing of interest is lost, the differences should come from something else.

 

[Vaalingrade]

If everyone recharges on long rests nothing of interest is lost,

Except reasonable pacing without tons of naps.

 

[mellored]

Yes. One.

The down side of that is that all battles need to be the same difficulty.

You can't have a few waves of weak enemies to soften you up before a big boss.

I mean, it's doable, but you need to adjust the entire encounter building system.

 

[Undrave]

Again WIZARD players, not Caster players. As a sorcerer player I really liked the warlock is it was.

Fair... but I think Clericand Druid players were also on board...

Let's just say : any player who gets a kick out of mastering the Vancian system and 'having the right spells ready'.

I don't think the Warlock was ever supposed to 'nova' like a traditional Vancian caster, nor were they designed to have all the answers to every situation. I think they were designed to have reliable at-will damage and a couple of tricks they could pull out. Either utility for out of combat encounter (wether it's from spell slots or incantations) or a spike of damage or some disruption. Tryingt to play a Warlock like a Wizard was always doomed to failiure. I feel the Warlock was almost closer to the Rogue, with spells to replace their expertise.

 

[mamba]

Except reasonable pacing without tons of naps.

you are making my point for me, I do not want the rules / mechanics to pace me

 

[kigmatzomat]

I don't play warlocks but I have seen the unpredictability. Oddly, in town they seem to be powerhouses, recovering their spells over a leisurely meal or at a tavern (which might currently be smoldering). While out in the wilds, you spend huge amounts of time on edge waiting for traps and ambushes, creeping at a snail's pace through an area of two or three city blocks, hoarding spells like a miser.

It is incredibly swingy, especially if the gm runs one adventure path in town and another in the wilderness, as the different authors create significantly different play styles, with GM adding possibly a 3rd.

Based on what I have seen, split the difference.

Give the warlock regular, old spell slots at 1st & 2nd level. At 3rd they get Pact magic. They would start at 1 pact slot and max out at 3. Pact spells known would be 3 less. At 3rd+ warlock, they would know 5 1st level spells (3x spells from Warlock 1st & 2nd plus 2x 1st from Patron).

Now they have a pool of basic slots for utility spells (hex, shield, detect magic, etc ) and still have some short-rest nova.

 

[Horwath]

Or, how about this wild idea: give them just a few spell slots, but they’re always automatically the highest level possible for the warlock’s level, and they recover on a short rest instead of a long rest.

that is a great idea, if only we had short rest in the game.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I don't play warlocks

...

Based on what I have seen, split the difference.

Give the warlock regular, old spell slots at 1st & 2nd level. At 3rd they get Pact magic. They would start at 1 pact slot and max out at 3. Pact spells known would be 3 less. At 3rd+ warlock, they would know 5 1st level spells (3x spells from Warlock 1st & 2nd plus 2x 1st from Patron).

Now they have a pool of basic slots for utility spells (hex, shield, detect magic, etc ) and still have some short-rest nova.

Warlocks are designed to not need that. Part of the point of invocations is that they handle the low level utility magic but in a different way. You've got invocations that can cast a low level spell at will; spells like False Life, Silent Image, Disguise Self. And others for abilities such as an always on Detect Magic (so no need to burn a slot or spend ten minutes), or Dark vision that sees through magical darkness.

Warlocks have their own way of handling utility magic; it’s less varied but you can use it like a cantrip while having the power of a spell. The low level spells warlocks don't get to use effectively are the defensive reaction ones; shield, absorb elements, and silvery barbs. And even there there's defense in most of the subclasses.

But of course this nonsense takes away the high level spells and gives them low level slots to track.

 

[HammerMan]

So... Each of the Packs are now a cantrip.
Magic Initiate is a level 1 background feat that grants access to 2 cantrips (plus some other stuff)
Doesn't this mean a Level 1 character starting as a Warlock can have all 3 pacts?

I don’t know. It says they are warlock only but if you are a warlock can you take them as other cantrips?

 

[Neonchameleon]

I don’t know. It says they are warlock only but if you are a warlock can you take them as other cantrips?

Only if they've messed up more than I think. Because given the tome gives you two can trips why wouldn't you just take it?