D&D 5E Things I Miss From Older Playtest Packets

[Evenglare]

I too do not like skills being married to ability scores. They are on the right track though with backgrounds, which is my prefered way of doing it. Im a pretty bit 13th age fan and that's how they do "skills" they allow you to pick whatever backgrounds you like then if the background helps with the ability check then you can apply the bonus. Maybe if 5th edition just had those skills with "suggested" abilities, that would be a pretty fair middle ground yeah?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

While I personally think that skills completely divorced from attributes is a bit too gamist for my taste, having it be DM's discretion which attribute to use for a given use of a skill could be a fair compromise...

IF

The rules provide a good set of examples to illustrate how that would work. Say, a brief, traditional one depicting someone picking pockets with Dexterity, a longer one depicting picking pockets with Strength (a calculated collision causing a mark to drop the item or to be so jostled they don't notice the item disappearing from their possession), and another depicting someone using Charisma to con the mark to give up the item.

And not just for one skill, but a good selection of them illustrating some cases that would require more imagination...like my prior example of Charisma-ing a difficult climb.

 

[GX.Sigma]

I could see certain skills working with multiple attributes, but some I just don't think I could buy into- Charisma-ing my way up a steep cliff boggles my mind, somewhat, as would Strengthily hiding and moving quietly.

picking pockets with Strength... Charisma to con the mark to give up the item...Charisma-ing a difficult climb.

The point is not that you can use any ability for any given task. The point is that you can use skills for multiple kinds of tasks.

The point is that you can do things like:

• Re-create a guard's outfit from memory (intelligence + disguise)
• Shout "Don't come in, I'm fine" imitating the voice of the guard you just killed (charisma + disguise)
• Tie up an unconscious orc (dexterity + use rope)
• Figure out which rope to cut to make the sails fall down (intelligence + use rope)

Most importantly, it allows all skills to be used as knowledge skills or social skills (oh, I know about climbing!).

 

[Plaguescarred]

I miss Skills untied to ability scores too

 

[1of3]

Proper Fighter subclasses. (I understand it's more a matter of arrangement currently.)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The point is not that you can use any ability for any given task. The point is that you can use skills for multiple kinds of tasks.

The point is that you can do things like:

• Re-create a guard's outfit from memory (intelligence + disguise)
• Shout "Don't come in, I'm fine" imitating the voice of the guard you just killed (charisma + disguise)
• Tie up an unconscious orc (dexterity + use rope)
• Figure out which rope to cut to make the sails fall down (intelligence + use rope)

Most importantly, it allows all skills to be used as knowledge skills or social skills (oh, I know about climbing!).

Same diff, really.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Necromancer specialty. (for anyone who can cast a spell!)

 

[Li Shenron]

I miss the skill system that wasn't locked to specific ability scores.

- This a thousand time.

- Also I miss Rogue skills being available as skills not as feats, more generally I miss feats being totally optional

- I miss OTOH the feats from the early packets, where e.g. Arcane Dabbler let you choose cantrips freely

- I miss Fighter Styles being presented almost as they were subclasses

- I miss the pure vancian Wizard that OTOH could prepare many more spells per day than just 1+level

 

[Li Shenron]

I could see certain skills working with multiple attributes, but some I just don't think I could buy into- Charisma-ing my way up a steep cliff boggles my mind, somewhat, as would Strengthily hiding and moving quietly.

The point is not that you can use any ability for any given task. The point is that you can use skills for multiple kinds of tasks.

(...)

Nice examples!

To add my 2cp, to make a disassociated skill system work IMO it is important to make it clear to the players that it is not them who can choose what ability score to use, but they can always suggest to be allowed a skill bonus if the DM hasn't made that explicit.

So it should go like this:

- the player says "I want to climb here"
- the DM says "it's a Dex check because..." or "it's a Str check because..." depending on the scenario
- it's clear already that Climb skill bonus applies to either

or

- the player says "I want to tell this to the guard"
- the DM says "it's a Cha check"
- the player says "can I apply my Persuade bonus?"
- the DM says "are you telling truth or lie to the guard?"
- the player says "it's a lie"
- the DM says "then no Persuade bonus, but Bluff bonus if you have one"

There is always room for plenty of player's initiative, without flat-out allowing the player to always use the same more convenient ability, which can lead to stat-dumping if abused.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

Nice examples!

To add my 2cp, to make a disassociated skill system work IMO it is important to make it clear to the players that it is not them who can choose what ability score to use, but they can always suggest to be allowed a skill bonus if the DM hasn't made that explicit.

So it should go like this:

- the player says "I want to climb here"
- the DM says "it's a Dex check because..." or "it's a Str check because..." depending on the scenario
- it's clear already that Climb skill bonus applies to either

or

- the player says "I want to tell this to the guard"
- the DM says "it's a Cha check"
- the player says "can I apply my Persuade bonus?"
- the DM says "are you telling truth or lie to the guard?"
- the player says "it's a lie"
- the DM says "then no Persuade bonus, but Bluff bonus if you have one"

There is always room for plenty of player's initiative, without flat-out allowing the player to always use the same more convenient ability, which can lead to stat-dumping if abused.

That's how it is done, and, honestly, how I will do it regardless of what's in the book. I really think this only needs a paragraph or two of description in the DMG to make it work.