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D&D General Things That Bug You


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Emerikol

Adventurer
  • Saving throws. Why the hell have it, if in 4E we had defenses that work better in every way? Or, maybe get rid of AC and add armour saving throw, either would be fine
For me, I've been considering the idea that the players should always roll when they can. So they save against attacks when they are attacked. They roll attacks when they are attacking another. The only time the GM should roll is when the PCs could not know they need to roll or when failure could be automatic because there is nothing to find and you don't want the PCs to know they failed even when rolling a 20.
 

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
My biggest gripe with 5E and most other editions is that the trope "terrifying arcane power gained by unearthing of dark, ancient secrets" - which is central to so many published campaigns (perhaps the granddaddy of tropes) and implicit in a lot of the descriptive text - is not reflected in the mechanics, like at all.

There are no spells, feats, class features, magic items etc. that can be more easily (or only) gained through nefarious sacrifice rather than plucky ambition. There are no moral trade-offs required for the upper echelons of arcane or divine power. 8th and 9th level spells don't have any profound costs, just gp equivalents. And the "ancient secrets" are almost always re-skins of existing knowledge or an adequately CR balanced magic item.

It feels like a very central trope to fantasy adventure is just artifice and macgunnfin-ism in D&D.

It's not a trope I use very often because I agree it's over used but I still have used it or variations in the past. Just because we don't have that magic ritual available to PCs doesn't mean it can't exist. So, yes, NPCs can summon a legion of demons to do their bidding while the PCs can't but starting the next apocalypse is my job, not the job of the PCs. :devilish:
 



dave2008

Legend
For me, I've been considering the idea that the players should always roll when they can. So they save against attacks when they are attacked. They roll attacks when they are attacking another. The only time the GM should roll is when the PCs could not know they need to roll or when failure could be automatic because there is nothing to find and you don't want the PCs to know they failed even when rolling a 20.
Isn't there an option for the in the DMG, or was that in a UA?
 

dave2008

Legend
The Six Attributes/Ability Scores. They are clunky mofos and I dislike 'em. I can tolerate them in D&D on the basis of tradition, but I hate when they show up outside of D&D.
Just play D&D then ;) JK

The abilities have never bothered me much, but I did like the 3 saves of 3e and 4e and would have thought the next evolution was just to use them for everything (attacks, check, and defense). But 5e took a step back to tradition and it seems to have gone pretty well.
 
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dave2008

Legend
My 5e paladin goes from 19 in plate + shield to 9 in his skivvies. That's "good enough to make the dm's job harder" to "all combat is suicidal."
Yes, but that paladin could have an AC of 15 + shield in his skivvies too. If you want to be good with dodging outside of armor you can be. Also, with the # of hit points a paladin has, even an AC of 9 is not suicidal in combat (which is also a form of dodging).
 
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Yes, but that paladin could have an AC of 15 + shield in his skivvies too. If you want to be good with dodging outside of armor you can be. Also, with the # of hit points a paladin has, even an AC of 9 is not suicidal in combat (which is also a form of dodging).
I could, if I didn't want to have as much magic (both spells and power in other features) or as many hit points, and getting hit three times as often is going to make those hit points go away a lot faster.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
My biggest gripe with 5E and most other editions is that the trope "terrifying arcane power gained by unearthing of dark, ancient secrets" - which is central to so many published campaigns (perhaps the granddaddy of tropes) and implicit in a lot of the descriptive text - is not reflected in the mechanics, like at all.

There are no spells, feats, class features, magic items etc. that can be more easily (or only) gained through nefarious sacrifice rather than plucky ambition. There are no moral trade-offs required for the upper echelons of arcane or divine power. 8th and 9th level spells don't have any profound costs, just gp equivalents. And the "ancient secrets" are almost always re-skins of existing knowledge or an adequately CR balanced magic item.

It feels like a very central trope to fantasy adventure is just artifice and macgunnfin-ism in D&D.

Isn't the dark and terrifying parts done by the wizard who created the spells and items?

Your wizard is just copying the end product into the spellbook. D&D doesn't really have a system for creating new spells. Sure the lich mayhave blown up 15 guys to invent Delayed Blast Fireball but your PC wizard is just copying from his book, not developing a whole new spell.

Isn't that the divide between Adventurer Wizard PC and Researching Wizard NPC?
The adventuring wizard keeps his or her sanity, morality, and vitality by letting others do the dirty work of R&Dand scavenges of those who push too hard.
 

dave2008

Legend
I could, if I didn't want to have as much magic (both spells and power in other features) or as many hit points, and getting hit three times as often is going to make those hit points go away a lot faster.
Sure, however the original gripe I was responding too was that you don't become better at dodging as you get more experienced (level up). But you do, that is accommodated by hit points, not AC. A level 1 paladin is much more squishy without armor than a level 10 paladin. That is reflecting the experience in avoiding deadly injuries, regardless of armor. This experience is covered by hit points, not AC. The whole part of "dodging" is a combination of AC and HP. HP covers the experience part of that function and AC covers the armor and ability score portion.
 
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I could, if I didn't want to have as much magic (both spells and power in other features) or as many hit points, and getting hit three times as often is going to make those hit points go away a lot faster.

Make a DEX-based paladin and fight with rapiers or short swords. The Paladin is an extremely strong class, so the fact that you can't build it to have high STR, DEX, CON, and CHA is not really a problem IMO.
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest
Isn't the dark and terrifying parts done by the wizard who created the spells and items?

Your wizard is just copying the end product into the spellbook. D&D doesn't really have a system for creating new spells. Sure the lich mayhave blown up 15 guys to invent Delayed Blast Fireball but your PC wizard is just copying from his book, not developing a whole new spell.

Isn't that the divide between Adventurer Wizard PC and Researching Wizard NPC?
The adventuring wizard keeps his or her sanity, morality, and vitality by letting others do the dirty work of R&Dand scavenges of those who push too hard.
It could be - again, to echo Jackdaw, there really isn't anything mechanical behind it -it's all narrative. Ultimately, that's OK with me, but I can see coming up with a group of spells that involve a bit more corruption in their use. Something like a blood magic mechanic that burns another resource like hit points or maybe hit dice to access even while adventuring.
 

loverdrive

Makin' cool stuff
OK, thank you for the clarification. I guess they way we use perception there are clear risks and rewards. Whether you sense the dragon lurking behind the glamoured cave entrance has serious consequences IMO.

I do understand how passive perception is a bit of an odd skill out though. It just doesn't bother me.
Well, that's kinda what I'm talking about. Calling for Perception check is most of the time "you either spot the danger, or you're in trouble". It's not something that a character is actively doing to accomplish something. It gauges how quick one can react to something rather than how well they can do something.

My solution would be to either make Perception something akin to "Awareness" AC, or, better, replace it with Recon skill.
 

Make a DEX-based paladin and fight with rapiers or short swords. The Paladin is an extremely strong class, so the fact that you can't build it to have high STR, DEX, CON, and CHA is not really a problem IMO.
The solution to "taking off your armor is a huge drop to defenses" is "don't play characters who wear armor"? I do not find that satisfying. In fact, I'd even say that it bugs me.
 

Well, that's kinda what I'm talking about. Calling for Perception check is most of the time "you either spot the danger, or you're in trouble". It's not something that a character is actively doing to accomplish something. It gauges how quick one can react to something rather than how well they can do something.

My solution would be to either make Perception something akin to "Awareness" AC, or, better, replace it with Recon skill.
Pathfinder 2e makes it its own thing, separate form the skill list: you get proficiency by class, and that's the only way to get it. It's main uses are passive (it's the 'sneak past you DC), initiative (which is brilliant), and occasionally for actively seeking hidden opponents.

No reason you couldn't port that idea into most versions of DnD.
 


The solution to "taking off your armor is a huge drop to defenses" is "don't play characters who wear armor"? I do not find that satisfying. In fact, I'd even say that it bugs me.

High DEX doesn't stop you from wearing armor. Rogues, rangers, DEX fighters, bards, Hexblade warlocks, and DEX paladins all wear armor. It sounds like your complaint is that the paladin should be awesome at everything with no tradeoffs. If what you want is to be badass with a Greatsword and super tough and sneaky and nimble and an adept bow fighter, the class for that is Fighter. You could also 1-dip into Barbarian. Or 1-dip Hexblade. You could be a half-elf and start with the array 16/14/14/8/8/14. Or you could go 10/16/16/8/8/16, wear medium armor, and fight with light weapons.

Lots of ways to get decent DEX as a paladin. It has tradeoffs, but every class has tradeoffs. You chose a powerful melee class with built-in spell casting, yes, there are tradeoffs in the form of MAD and being weak at range.
 
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