Things the rogue class said..and didn't say

[Deep Blue 9000]

I am guessing there is no penalty for failing to be proficient with a "simple" weapon, but bonuses available if you are proficient with a particular weapon.

"Proficient" will likely mean "eligible for bonuses with that weapon that non-proficient users are not eligible for".

For example, perhaps a feet like Weapon Focus will grant you a +1 to attack with all weapons you are proficient with. That way, anyone can use a dagger at no penalty, but if you want Weapon Focus: Dagger, you will need Weapon Proficiency: Dagger first.

I'm hopeful that they're making proficiency less important. And this would be consistent with the 4e design axiom of replacing penalties with bonuses.

 

[Toryx]

I am guessing there is no penalty for failing to be proficient with a "simple" weapon, but bonuses available if you are proficient with a particular weapon.

"Proficient" will likely mean "eligible for bonuses with that weapon that non-proficient users are not eligible for".

I think that's likely to be the case. And it'd certainly be a change that would explain why individual weapons are listed under a class proficiency rather than the weapon type. It would also explain why something as simple as a club or a sap would not be in the rogue list. If the proficiency is just a bonus instead of a penalty, then the rogue would be able to use whatever weapon he or she liked. And feats could be used to gain a proficiency bonus.

I don't agree that Weapon Focus will apply to more than one weapon. They might do that, but I suspect feats are being powered down, not up now that they have the power system in place.

Edit to correct stupid typoes.

 

[mach1.9pants]

IIRC some one mentioned that a wizards per day powers are slightly more important than, for example, a fighters. I know that if I can't get a link it didn't happen but I am pretty sure that was said.
But I hope that every class gets the same number of w/e/d powers and they are balanced. easy houseruling and multiclasing
I also expect that you will not be able to use your powers with non proficient weapons, maybe

 

[Mistwell]

I think that's likely to be the case. And it'd certainly be a change that would explain why individual weapons are listed under a class proficiency rather than the weapon type. It would also explain why something as simple as a club or a sap would not be in the rogue list. If the proficiency is just a bonus instead of a penalty, then the rogue would be able to use whatever weapon he or she liked. And feats could be used to gain a proficiency bonus.

I don't agree that Weapon Focus will apply to more than one weapon. They might do that, but I suspect feats are being powered down, not up now that they have the power system in place.

Edit to correct stupid typoes.

Weapon Focus may have been a bad example. How about instead "Far Shot: Double the range of all ranged or thrown weapons for which you have proficiency" might be a more appropriate example.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

IIRC some one mentioned that a wizards per day powers are slightly more important than, for example, a fighters. I know that if I can't get a link it didn't happen but I am pretty sure that was said.

It's in Races and Classes:

Compared to other classes, your once per day abilities are the most powerful and your more frequently used abilities are slightly weaker.

 

[scrubkai]

Proficiency (in previous editions) is knowing how to use something decently. Unless someone has led an outrageously sheltered life, they know how to use a knife, how to use a club/handaxe (not to throw it, admittedly), how to smack someone with a pole (some some kind of double weapon BS, just a big pole for hitting), a medium-length spear and so on.

I think we have a different definition of proficency.
Everyone I know can pick up a knife or stick and wack someone with it.
Many people I know can pick up a knife and hold it correctly so it can't be kicked easily out of their hand.
A few people I know, can pick up a knife or staff, hold it correctly and know the basics about what to do with them in hand to hand combat.

None of those people I would consider proficent with a knife or staff.

Proficent to me means trained, explicitly on the weapons use in combat. Each weapon has strengths and weaknesses, common tactics and common things to watch out for. Without knowing those and practicing them in stressfull situations, I don't consider you proficent.

To me most commoners do not have that training.

 

[JohnSnow]

IIRC some one mentioned that a wizards per day powers are slightly more important than, for example, a fighters. I know that if I can't get a link it didn't happen but I am pretty sure that was said.
But I hope that every class gets the same number of w/e/d powers and they are balanced. easy houseruling and multiclasing
I also expect that you will not be able to use your powers with non proficient weapons, maybe

Well, I don't know about "someone" but under the description for the Wizard class in Wizards Presents - Races and Classes, Mike Mearls wrote "Compared to other classes, your once per day abilities are the most powerful and your more frequently used abilities are slightly weaker."

Was that by any chance the quote you were thinking of?

Also...regarding whether every class gets the same number of w/e/d powers, we know the following:

A 1st-level rogue gets 4 attack powers: 2 at-will, 1 per-encounter, and 1 daily.

Based on the Confessions of a Full-Time Wizard article Conception of a Full-Time Wizard, a 1st-level wizard gets 4 spells: 2 at-will, 1 per-encounter, and 1 daily. For her starting powers, Shelly picked magic missile, fireblast, burning hands and sleep, respectively.

So based on 2 data points, I'm guessing the at-will/encounter/daily thing of 2/1/1 holds. It looks like rogues, at least, get utility powers at Level 2. I have no idea how that will break down with feats.

Attack Powers at odd levels and utility powers and feats at even levels, perhaps? Do we have any indication how many feats a character gets?

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

Attack Powers at odd levels and utility powers and feats at even levels, perhaps? Do we have any indication how many feats a character gets?

There was this quote on Jennifer Clarke Wilkes developer blog:

Random quote heard at my gaming table over the weekend. Sean (creating his 10th-level character): I've got six feats! That's two yards!" Chris: "I cannot fathom your sense of humor."

Most people guessed one feat at first and then at even levels. If it was a 4e character, of course.

 

[Just Another User]

I'm pretty sure your power distribution is flawed too.

Based on what we know, it's far more likely that characters will get powers at each level. Consider:

We've been told that an epic level wizard will be able to cast 25th level spells. This suggests that spell level corresponds to character level.

We also know that there are even numbered power levels (as evidenced by tumble, a 2nd level power).

If both of those things are the case, it's pretty clear that rogues get new powers at second level. Probably other even levels as well.

That make me wonder, how many powers there will be in the PHB alone?
if classes gain one power per level

8 classes * 30 levels * 4 powers per level (the minimum necessary to have a meaningful choice IMHO) = 960 powers.

That is a lot of powers, and it is probably a cautious estimate.

Not to be always the naysayier but I wonder how they will be able to make them different enough to be, well, different.

 

[fabneme]

Following the train of tought of every class having the same progression on BAB, saves, etc., plus the +2 reflex as a customization that's linked to the class, we can conclude that the same could be applied to the rogue's 6hp healing surge being an addition to an eventual universal healing surge.