Thoughts about Detect Evil

[Li Shenron]

But for God's sake, don't call it "unclear"!

I meant it wasn't IMHO a good design choice to let Detect Evil be better than Detect Good.

 

[Apuglisi]

I dont see why detect evil is better than other detecs because of detecting undeads
You dont use exactly good magic to create one, at least I feel it that way.

I think one mayor problem is why aligment...I dont think a neutral cleric should be around worshipping an evil diety just because you can be one alignment step away from your God...
My good characters will consider anyone worshipping an evil God or associated to an evil person (by choice and not by force or fear) as evil...And wont care if that person claims to be neutral.

Of course, that is how I like to play good characters.

DE comes more handly because you usually will be more worried to detect evil creatures/persons than good...

But I had a Lawful Evil gnome rogue/illusionist (it was in 3...I hate now bards being the gnome class) and found quite usefull to have my detect good around Would had been horrible to meet a paladin

 

[Lamoni]

I said this before in the other thread, but I wanted to repeat it.

Detect Evil is superior in that it gives more information, but it is inferior because you really don't know if you are detecting evil or something else. My main problem with this is that I think there should be a way to tell for sure if something is evil. If I encounter an undead in Eberron with my Paladin and it registers as evil I want my smite to work every time. If the spell said that it also detected Undead, but it gave a different feeling than it did from evil, I'd be happier. Fortunately this doesn't come up often and I am not currently playing a Paladin.

 

[DarkWizard]

Actually, I personally have a very different take on the detect family of spells. The way I interpret the descriptions of detect good, detect chaos, and the other similar spells, is that they function precisely the same as detect evil, but are aimed at a different aspect of alignment. For instance, detect good is just capable of detecting a good undead creature as detect evil is of detecting an evil undead creature. Same for law and chaos, all across the board.

When using these spells, I generally look to the detect evil table, but replace "evil" with "good" or whatever happens to be appropriate. My rationale is that undead are easier to detect because they are literally being held together and animated by magic, thus making their aura more powerful. Though not quite as powerful as outsiders, of course.

 

[Hypersmurf]

For instance, detect good is just capable of detecting a good undead creature as detect evil is of detecting an evil undead creature. Same for law and chaos, all across the board.

It's not what's written, though

Detect Good detects a good undead creature with an aura power appropriate to a 'good creature' of its hit dice.

Detect Evil detects that same good undead creature with an aura power appropriate to an 'undead creature' of its hit dice.

'Undead creature' is not restricted to evil alignments, for Detect Evil, and it doesn't appear at all in the other three spells.

-Hyp.

 

[DarkWizard]

Granted, undead are not specified in the three alternate versions of the spell. Nor are they listed as being undetectable by the spells. The spells simply specify that they work exactly as detect evil but look for different versions of a creature's alignment.

The fact that evil is not specified for undead in the detect evil table could indeed be interpreted to mean that the spell detects any and all undead regardless of their alignment. However that would be, as this entire thread indicates, a very silly thing to be put into the spell. As such, I personally interpret it to mean the spell detects evil undead, while detect good finds good undead, and so on.

Just my own reading of the spells.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Granted, undead are not specified in the three alternate versions of the spell. Nor are they listed as being undetectable by the spells. The spells simply specify that they work exactly as detect evil but look for different versions of a creature's alignment.

That's not what they specify.

Detect Evil detects evil creatures, undead, clerics of evil deities, and evil magic items or spells.

Detect Chaos functions like detect evil, except that it detects the auras of chaotic creatures, clerics of chaotic deities, chaotic spells, and chaotic magic items.

'Undead' is not on the list of auras Detect Chaos detects. It will detect Chaotic undead as Chaotic creatures, but it won't detect any other sort of undead.

Detect Evil, on the other hand, detects 'Undead', with no alignment restriction.

-Hyp.

 

[ElectricDragon]

That is why I suggested that the other detect alignment spells also gain an additional thing they detect: Detect Good: Constructs; Detect Law: Plants; Detect Chaos: Vermin. The alignment of such things wouldn't matter as it does not for DE and undead. This would serve to equalize the four alignment spells. All would suffer from some indecision: Is it good or just a construct? Is it lawful or actually a plant? Is it chaotic or really a vermin?

Detect Undead is really underpowered at an equal level to DE though. Its only saving grace is the fact that if it pings: you got an undead on your hands (not some undefined evil-type thingy).

Ciao
Dave

 

[Saeviomagy]

'Undead' is not on the list of auras Detect Chaos detects. It will detect Chaotic undead as Chaotic creatures, but it won't detect any other sort of undead.

Detect Evil, on the other hand, detects 'Undead', with no alignment restriction.
-Hyp.

Except on a strict reading, using detect chaos:

1. It can detect chaotic creatures, so it detects a chaotic undead creature
2. You look down the table for aura strengths, and theres a listing for "undead". It's stronger than the aura for a chaotic creature, so we use that aura strength instead.

So the only actual point of difference is that detect evil will detect a non-evil undead creature.

edit:
Actually that extends to detect evil in general.

The spell detects, in the second round, the number of evil auras (creatures, objects or spells).

It seems like it's perfectly logical to deduce that a non-evil undead DOES NOT GET PAST THIS LINE OF THE CLASSIFICATION. It has no evil aura. It doesn't qualify as an evil creature, an evil object or an evil spell, nor is it specifically listed as generating an evil aura. Clerics of evil deities still do - because they are specifically listed in their description as generating an evil aura.

Then - you get to the section where you determine the strength of the evil aura, and the table says that undead have an aura of this strength, which overrides the entry of 'evil creature'.

I'll agree that hyp's reading is possible, but it's by no means the only one possible.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Except on a strict reading...

I actually just came to that conclusion myself while walking back from lunch, and was on my way here to amend

-Hyp.