Thoughts on Complete Scoundrel?

[Bagpuss]

I just got my copy and was wondering what people thought about stuff in it, anything broken?

On the design principle that Prestige Classes shouldn't be significantly better than base classes, just add different options and more flavour, the Battle Trickster looks a little broken, why take fighter levels when you get exactly the same but more skills, more tricks, and tricky fighting.

Luck feats seem they could quickly get out of hand when stacked and used with the Fortune's Friend class, more things to track in play.

Not sure about the feats that let you stack class levels, are they saying those classes are weak on their own? Seems for a multiclass character they are a must have feat, which always makes me worry.

Anyone else spotted anything open to abuse?

 

[BlackSeed_Vash]

some of the skill tricks are really powerful for only 2 skill pts and meeting a preq

dont have the book on me but, there is one that allows you to stand up w/o provoking an AoO; that replaces the "Kip up" ability from Thief-Acrobat (CAdv), the DC 35 tumble check (EH); and even Prone Attack (CW).

 

[Bagpuss]

Yeah that's Nimble Stand (admittedly being a trick it's limit to once an encounter) but that ones not half as good as the one that lets you stand up from prone as an immediate action (Back on your Feet).

I don't think they are particularly powerful or unsuited to tricks, more they were too hard at DC 35, and a bit weak as class abilities / feats.

 

[Hypersmurf]

dont have the book on me but, there is one that allows you to stand up w/o provoking an AoO; that replaces the "Kip up" ability from Thief-Acrobat (CAdv), the DC 35 tumble check (EH); and even Prone Attack (CW).

It still takes a move action to stand with the trick, doesn't it?

DC 35 Tumble Check lets you stand as a free action, provoking an AoO.
Prone Attack lets you get in a full attack at no penalty; if you're standing up with Nimble Stand you're automatically limited to a single attack, effectively (absent the DC35 check).

-Hyp.

 

[blargney the second]

I picked it up and I'm eager to put it to use.

 

[Notmousse]

The thing to remember is that most of these abilities are once per encounter/day, so they're built a like feats that have a constant effect for (what WotC feels) 2/5 (according to Open Mind anyway) the price.

 

[VonRichthofen]

Bagpuss, you are aware of the fact that Battle Trickster levels don't count as fighter levels, aren't you? Provided you make use of PHB II, you'd lose out on Weapon Supremacy, while the amazing Overpowering Attack alternative class feature will be delayed by three levels.

Don't think it's broken, especially with all those people screaming "fighter is a sucktastic class!"

Apart from that, most of the book didn't strike me as very inspired - artwork is the usual: sub-standard. Fluff is mostly boring; scoundrel equipment - oh well; skill tricks are a fun new option (while adding yet another set of rules to the bulk), some PrCs are good, most are so-so....leaves me with feats.

Akin to Kolja Raven* in Complete Mage, the designers' interview showed the law-makers' problematic ideas on the D&D game's balance. "Daring Warrior" was not only supposed to stack swashbuckler and fighter levels for purpose of Dodge, Grace & qualifying for fighter bonus feats (as it does); but was indeed supposed to grant fighter bonus feats - yes, you read right, a fighter 4/swashbuckler 16 was supposed to get 8 fighter bonus feats from his swashbuckler levels.

Why do I tell this story?

Well, this particularly unbalancing feat was sacked by WotC in the printed version, but some other relics of questionable balance have remained.

Daring Outlaw gives a swashbuckler with 3+ rogue levels full Sneak Attack progression- that's allright, swashbuckler has been considered a mechanically weak class from the very start.

Swift Hunter, however, is another story.

Just to get this straight, I love this feat.

Provided you can swallow 3 levels of scout in your ranger build, you'll still get your 5th Favored Enemy AND FULL SKIRMISH PROGRESSION! Even better, Favored Enemies are subject to Skirmish even if they are immune to critical hits! Plain Sweet!

The mobile archer build scout3/ranger 17 or scout 4/ranger 16 abounds in a thousand forms these days. By level 17, you could deal up to +28d6 bonus Skirmish damage/round with your bow. (56d6 if you allow for Forgotten Realms enhancements)

It's a great feat since allows for the ranger to finally & fully adopt the role of second-rank combatant that mainly runs around on the battlefield.

It is also very, very powerful & might offer great ways of abuse. (A character polymorphing into an arrow demon with twin splitting bows for up to 112d6 Skirmish/round spontaneously comes to mind)

And that's what I personally think is the problem with the book: Most things are rather bland wile others are simply a must-have for their respective classes and will define a whole new standard.


*game designer that admitted he had no true idea on the value of some of the best-known PHB spells (limited wish comes to mind), reason for the highly questionable listings of recommended spells.

 

[szilard]

I've written a bit about my reactions to it in my blog. In essence, I think it has a lot of cool stuff in it, but I am disappointed by some of the things that were left out.

Broken stuff? Some of the feats in there look a little too good. The multi-classing feats seem better than the ones in Complete Adventurer. Improved skirmish is probably a bit too nasty as well.

-Stuart

 

[Harm]

Bagpuss, you are aware of the fact that Battle Trickster levels don't count as fighter levels, aren't you? Provided you make use of PHB II, you'd lose out on Weapon Supremacy, while the amazing Overpowering Attack alternative class feature will be delayed by three levels.

Then take them at 19 and 20. You gain 4 skill points, a trick and 2 fort.

 

[mattdm]

Then take them at 19 and 20. You gain 4 skill points, a trick and 2 fort.

Oooh, now the game is broken.