Tiers Excerpt (merged)

[eleran]

How do you equate cost of a ritual with no progression? Are they mutually exclusive?

First of all you have to get yourself a very special magic item...Derren's Lens of Semantical Negativity. From there it is easy.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

It kind of bothers me that scrying is so high level, as it's usually a low-power Old Wise Woman trick. It's the sort of thing I'd expect to be a Heroic Tier ritual, so the Court Wizard or the Mysterious Gypsy Woman could have it. Then again, with "Exception based design", I suppose I could say "Gypsy Fortunetellers (6th level Elite Controller (Leader)) have the Scry ritual. You can't learn it until you're 20th level. Sucks to be you."

I think "Sucks to be you" is going to be my answer to a lot of player questions, if I ever run 4e...

(Please don't tell me about the obvious game balance reason. I know the game balance reason. It's another case where flavor and Classic Tropes have been ambushed by game balance, poisoned, stabbed, and flung into the icy river to drown, only to stagger out later and...oh wait, that's Rasputin. Where was I going with this?)

Maybe the old mysterious gypsy woman is higher level then you thought?
But maybe your answer to the players would be "sucks to be her. She is incoherently babbling most of the time. But at least for a few minutes each day, she can scry..."
(And then, typically Scrying is done with a crystal ball, right? That's a magical item, not a inherent ability)

 

[Lizard]

How very strange. 1st level teleporting fey is bad, but 1st level plot-breaking scrying is good.

Never had any trouble with scry in any game I ran --- really! -- but teleport always gave me agita.

I base my complaints on experience.

For some reason, no game of D&D I've either been in, or run, has used buff/scry/teleport as anything like common. I have more trouble with high Bluff/Diplomacy checks ruining plots than I have with scrying.

But as I said, the main issue is that "Gaze into the crystal ball...." doesn't sound Epic to me. It's a cheap wizard's parlor trick in most genre works.

 

[hong]

Never had any trouble with scry in any game I ran --- really! -- but teleport always gave me agita.

I base my complaints on experience.

For some reason, no game of D&D I've either been in, or run, has used buff/scry/teleport as anything like common. I have more trouble with high Bluff/Diplomacy checks ruining plots than I have with scrying.

It would seem that this game you have been running has been almost, but not quite, completely different to D&D.

But as I said, the main issue is that "Gaze into the crystal ball...." doesn't sound Epic to me. It's a cheap wizard's parlor trick in most genre works.

Insert 100-page s*mul*tionist screed on how foretelling the future completely changes the dynamic of worlds beyond repair.

 

[Steely Dan]

Encounters are supposed to last the same number of rounds; why need more?

It just surprises me that between levels 1 and 30 you gain only 3 encounter powers.

But it's plenty enough for me.

It does mean though that you will only have 4 rounds of encounter powers, what if the encounter goes on for 11 rounds or what have you, that's another 7 rounds where you have to use your at-will and dailies (4).

 

[Lizard]

Maybe the old mysterious gypsy woman is higher level then you thought?

"Then why isn't SHE out defeating the orcs?"

But maybe your answer to the players would be "sucks to be her. She is incoherently babbling most of the time. But at least for a few minutes each day, she can scry..."

Note to self:Right down dialog from the hybrid in BSG to use for Old Gypsy Women.

(And then, typically Scrying is done with a crystal ball, right? That's a magical item, not a inherent ability)

"So...old gypsy woman...alone in the wagon...no one really watching...with a magic item that grants an epic tier ability....hmmm...you did say that with no real alignments in this edition, there's no penalty for out-of-alignment acts....hmmm..."

 

[hong]

"So...old gypsy woman...alone in the wagon...no one really watching...with a magic item that grants an epic tier ability....hmmm...you did say that with no real alignments in this edition, there's no penalty for out-of-alignment acts....hmmm..."

See, all your problems stem from players who are unable to tell the difference between people with red and blue circles around their feet.

 

[Dausuul]

2. "Observe Creature" doesn't do it for me. Nor does "View Object." If those are the names we're going to get when naming goes strictly literal, then bring on the fancy names. I'll take a five word phrase that invokes two colors, an animal, a magic related adjective, and a sort of related verb over "view object" any day of the week. "I cast View Object." Seriously?

Totally agree. The ritual should be called "Warwizard's Scryblade."

 

[hong]

Scryblade.

SCRYBLADE.

I so want a magic sword called Scryblade.

 

[Lizard]

It would seem that this game you have been running has been almost, but not quite, completely different to D&D.

Apparently, all those WOTC books we've been lugging around are expensive paperweights.

Insert 100-page s*mul*tionist screed on how foretelling the future completely changes the dynamic of worlds beyond repair.

"Always in motion, the future is."

(I usually use scrying/precog as an excuse for the villains to be prepared. Assume the Bad Guys have access to the same magic as the heroes. They can say "When will the heroes be scrying on us?", and then, act out their little skit when the time comes. As for precog, there's nothing better than having the PCs burst into the villains lair, prepared to surprise him, and find he has big banners reading "Welcome to the heroes" with their photos on the wall and a big cake with their names on it all ready for them. And, of course, guards armed with whatever they're vulnerable to. My rule -- the longer the PCs dither about prepping, the longer the villains have to get ready for them. Either you charge in fast, or you charge into a perfect trap with everyone pre-buffed for your convenience. Your choice, guys. (Also, it's as easy for the BBEG to Charm/Dominate the hero's low level NPC friends as it is for them to C/D minions of the BBEG.."You FIEND! How did you know about my allergy to chocolate?" "Why, your best friend...and mine...Billy the Stablehand told me. He SO wanted to make sure I got you the perfect present for your birthday! Pity it's your LAST! Bwahaahha!")

Yes, my villains say "Bwahaahah!". In one game, it was faxed.

Of course, none of this is particularly relevant to the thread. But you asked...