D&D 5E Time to remake the Bard

[DND_Reborn]

Interestingly enough, the interplay of Pact/Patron could work for warlock-like Bard.

College/Art would be a fun distinction. Song, dance, speech, etc would have different mechanics and not just narrative that diverges from RAW

The only bard that nearly got played in our games was a dwarven bard who was an orator. He didn't sing or dance or play an instrument, he just made speeches, etc. That was the idea anyway but never got played.

So, having different mechanics/features for different types would be nice, maybe with 4-5 options.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

My idea of a bard:

• Cha-caster
• Warlock chassis.

Level 1: College (Lore, Sword, Skald), Spellcasting, Bardic Inspiration
Level 2: Songs
Level 3: Jack of all trades

• Songs instead of Invocations: replicate spells or give an effect in an aura.
• Magical Secrets instead of Arcanums: Take a spell of 6th to 9th level from any class. Cast once per day.
• Eldritch Master replaced by Master of Songs: Regain all slots and Inspiration after 1 minute, 1/day.

 

[Parmandur]

Inspired by my Which Class is "The Best" thread, and several people's belief that Bard is the best class, let's examine why.

At the core of the class, you have inspiration (still meh to me-- powerful as it is I am not a fan of the mechanic), spells, and expertise. With the proficiency system, bards can fight about as well as warrior classes, especially if you take an archetype that grants Extra Attack. The Lore bard allows you to be a skill monkey. Other archetypes fill other roles as well.

So, a bard could really just be a Fighter/Rogue/Sorcerer or some other combination. Now, since 1E PHB the bard was a Fighter then Rogue then (druid) Bard.

I am sure many of you are happy with the Bard as is. I'm not.

It steps on way too many toes. I would rather see the Bard as the skill monkey (Jack of all Trades is one of my favorite class features just purely based on the flavor idea) and develop an alternative role for the Rogue. I like the idea of Bards having spells, but fewer with enormous variety potential more meets my idea of the spells a Bard would know (various charms, etc. picked up "along the way"). A spell progression similar but a bit better than Paladins and Rangers might work well, or even something like the Warlock with few spell slots but other spell-like abilities akin to their invocations.

Finally, PLEASE do not waste my time (or yours...) simply by saying "the bard is awesome, and great as it is" or something similar. I am looking for ideas on how to remake the bard into something I would actually want to play. Characters already can support each other, so I don't want a class primarily designed to support others. Maybe I am not being clear, but hopefully for anyone who feels the way I do about bards, you get the idea...

Make an Arcane Trickster, and choose Entertainer as a Background. Already does everything it sounds like you want to do with a character.

The Bard is a support Class: if you do not want to play support, then it is not for your playstyle.

 

[Charlaquin]

Adventures in Middle Earth’s Warden is in my opinion a fantastic example of a “fixed” bard.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I think an alternate rogue spell casting subclass might be the best choice: something that works less on mage hand and more on vicious mockery. Skill monkey + stabs people + low level spell casting.

Or make a warlord class, and make the 1/3rd caster subclass be the "fixed" bard.

 

[Yaarel]

I think an alternate rogue spell casting subclass might be the best choice: something that works less on mage hand and more on vicious mockery. Skill monkey + stabs people + low level spell casting.

Or make a warlord class, and make the 1/3rd caster subclass be the "fixed" bard.

Sounds like a good option for players who want a Bard-like alternative.

Arcane Trickster with more customizability, to focus on Vicious Mockery instead of Mage Hand. Even allowing Cha as the casting ability to substitute Int. Call it Troubadour. With Rogue as a chassis, what else would the Troubadour need to satisfy the player niche?



As for the 5e Bard − I love it! It is awesome! Best Bard ever.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Thanks all for the suggestions, when I have time this weekend I plan to work on the class and a revamping of it.

Adventures in Middle Earth’s Warden is in my opinion a fantastic example of a “fixed” bard.

Is there any open-license material that I can see on the Warden?

Sounds like a good option for players who want a Bard-like alternative.

Arcane Trickster with more customizability, to focus on Vicious Mockery instead of Mage Hand. Even allowing Cha as the casting ability to substitute Int. Call it Troubadour. With Rogue as a chassis, what else would the Troubadour need to satisfy the player niche?

As for the 5e Bard − I love it! It is awesome! Best Bard ever.

LOL really? I knew someone would have to get this in! Fine. Enjoy your 5E bard.

 

[Gadget]

It steps on way too many toes. I would rather see the Bard as the skill monkey (Jack of all Trades is one of my favorite class features just purely based on the flavor idea) and develop an alternative role for the Rogue. I like the idea of Bards having spells, but fewer with enormous variety potential more meets my idea of the spells a Bard would know (various charms, etc. picked up "along the way"). A spell progression similar but a bit better than Paladins and Rangers might work well, or even something like the Warlock with few spell slots but other spell-like abilities akin to their invocations.

While the bard on the Warlock chassis sounds like an interesting alternative, most of what you are describing here sounds like the 3.X bard, which--pardon me for speaking for the crowd--was almost universally panned as being a poor class. The "jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none" concept was largely disparaged as a result. I do agree that the ability to raid other class's spell lists through magical secrets is a bit too much. Being promoted to a full nine level spell caster was enough.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Being promoted to a full nine level spell caster was enough.

What do you think of more limited casting, but allowing the bard to chose spells from ANY class?

For 5E, they still have their own list, but can raid from anywhere else. With the restricted spells and possible slots if a Warlock-like build, I think it might be okay and a fun option.

 

[Yaarel]

Thanks all for the suggestions, when I have time this weekend I plan to work on the class and a revamping of it.



Is there any open-license material that I can see on the Warden?



LOL really? I knew someone would have to get this in! Fine. Enjoy your 5E bard.

Instead of changing the official Bard, build a new one from scratch. Using the Rogue as a chassis, seems like a good idea to cover the skillster theme, and the cunning flavor of combat. Plus the appropriate cantrips, and spell progression. All that is necessary is musical or oratory effects. It might even make a good nonmusical leader archetype, at the same time. As well as ‘seductive celebrity’ possibilities. Drop sneakiness and hiding for charm.