To Enworld martial artists: Hung Gar vs Muay Thai vs BJJ.....

[zdanboy]

Thanks for all the positive replies guys. They have been really helpful, and my friend is strongly considering Hung Gar, as you suggested...in fact now it boils down to Hung Gar vs Muay Thai. He would like to get some short specifics on both of those martial arts (I do not know that much about Hung Gar, that is why I cannot help him)....so, if any of you could provide some descriptions I would be very glad......

The thing really liked about Muay Thai, was the thing that Kail mentioned...."hands-on" approach to training....he loved that....

Also I have to say that I have also been considering switching from Hung Gar to Muay Thai. This does not mean I think Hung Gar is ineffective, or so...but I love the inclusion of knees and elbows of MT.......some, I am in a tough spot....if ya could also help me choose (remain in HG or go MT), that would be super!

On the downside I heard that MT sparring and training can result in many injuries to the face and shins......

Also, I do not know if I have good physical condtion and weight and height to do MT.........my height is 173 cm, and weight 75 kg....

 

[Darius101]

Hung gar ---is more of a softer style than MT.

MT will get you in shape if you are not in shape...actually any martial art will do that.

Please specify what you mean by effective or let me know what you mean by "hands on" approach to training.
Does this mean sparring? Or That the teacher is actually in there working with you guys not on the side observing the class. Letting his 'Black Belts' run the class and only stepping in when needed.

My choice would be to go with my heart and then do what is fun. What is the pain to glory ratio for you? Mine was always to challenge myself. Sometimes that ment training past the point of exhaustion....or until I got sick. You will get out of training what you put into it. Training for me was not always fun but it was always a good time.
Darius

 

[olethros]

You have been watching too much Kung Fu the T.V. Series with David Carradine. They opened their doors to Americans for a short period of time in the late 1980's and early 1990's. I was asked to go train with them but due to family obligations and my wife I was unable to trian with them. They Are coming to U.S.A. for demonstrations in the next few months if you would like to go watch them. They will be in Cleveland, Ohio in February.

Actually I've never seen the tv series. I've been studying Kung Fu for a few years. (9th Generation from the creator Wong Long N. Praying Mantis Kung Fu). My statement was based on that "I'd heard", not it is so or this is the rule. From what I understand the 18 weapons rule is applicable more to northern styles, but not as applicable to souther styles such as Wing Chun. Since we're talking about HG here, it was my understanding based on reading that several of the early HG people were Shaolin trained so that rule might be applicable to Hg but as I say, it's not a real rule since there are so many exceptions.

I've seen the younger Shaolin monks perform before and their level of skill is incredible for their age.

So to make a statement that any Chinese school worth it's salt will teach weapon training is an insult based on ignorance.

Then whomever wrote that statement was ignorant, but I think I read it in a book on Chinese martial arts that was written in the 60's. It's very likely that book was inaccurate. My Sifu has always said that most traditional Kung Fu schools will have at least some weapon training available and that's a good way to weed out the American Kung Fu knockoff school that learned forms from videos and then teach them as canon to their students. (Seen it happen.)

 

[Darius101]

Then whomever wrote that statement was ignorant, but I think I read it in a book on Chinese martial arts that was written in the 60's. It's very likely that book was inaccurate. My Sifu has always said that most traditional Kung Fu schools will have at least some weapon training available and that's a good way to weed out the American Kung Fu knockoff school that learned forms from videos and then teach them as canon to their students. (Seen it happen.)

Yes traditional schools in chinese arts do teach some form of weapon if it is part of their tradition. There are over 2000 distinct styles of martial arts in china.
Tai-Chi for example only teaches weapons after you have been in it for a period of 3 years or If you have shown a 'certain' aptitude that the teacher looks for to teach it.

I am a 3rd Generation practioner of Wing Chung from Yip Man...I was taught by Kikan Wu and he was taught by HO Kam- Ming. I am

The knock off schools were a result of a number of things that were happening in the 60's and further propelled in the 70's when Kung Fu and Bruce Lee became the latest thing. There was also a scramble to find a successor to Mr. Lee when he passed away.
Olethros ...How do you like praying mantis? That art has always facinated me since I saw a demonstration by an older shaolin priest that was living in San Francisco. He was an amazing man. He also knew many other styles from the temple.
I also saw a demonstration by Aikido masters in san Francisco and that began an interesting passion for that art as well. Unfortunatly I do not have a good teacher near me for either. The praying mantis school here is a sham and the Aikido school here does not teach when I can take a class.
I also took Taihojitsu (Japenese police arresting technique) from Soke Higuchi.....very hard working class indeed and not taught in many places outside of Japan. It was an honor to be in that class for 10+yrs.
Learn all that is learnable ......
Darius

 

[NoOneofConsequence]

90% of street fights end up on the ground.

The two fighters whose experience I respect the most laugh at the idea of ending up on the ground. Their attitude is "first to go down = first to lose".

 

[mmadsen]

The two fighters whose experience I respect the most laugh at the idea of ending up on the ground. Their attitude is "first to go down = first to lose".

Then I hope they spend the vast majority of their training time working on takedowns and takedown defense.

 

[LGodamus]

That 90% on the ground stuff is rediculous.. In my style which even focuses on grappling our teacher says when you hit the ground is when you start losing teeth. maybe 90% between unskilled fighters. Only people who do not know how to fight will be wrestling in a real fight.

 

[Kail]

zdanboy,

Greetings, don't know how much history I can provide, but what I know comes from my contact in chinese arts and current instructor. Hun Gar, if I am recalling this right, originated from the tirger and crane animal forms, combine the power and agressive attacks and subtle and deceptive movements of each form into one fighting style. Its supposed to be really good stuff, a search of the net should turn up plenty of sites and from those you can most likely find some really solid history.

The "hands on" part of MT, if its solid and real, will be in the ring, on the mat sparring and working the heavy bags. You won't see much in the way of forms training and shadow boxing is most likely the only thing you will run into that doesn't involve hitting something when throwing a strike. Its tough and will test you physically and mentally by pushing you to your aboslute limits and then just a bit more if you let it. It may be competion oriented, but learning to throw hard hits and recieve them is always good for self-defense, and altering a knee or kick to target the groin is not that hard.
Hun Gar has its ups as well. Its an art you will be able to train in for a life time. Between forms, which can be broken down into application for fights with a good instructor, solo sets, I believe they do wooden dummy training as well, you have a full work out that will keep you in it for a long time. The techniques you learn will be applicable in a self-defense situation, but will need time and dedication to learn to apply them. Just putting in the hours at class will not be enough, training on your own is a must.

Myself, I would focus on Hun Gar and work out with the Mui Tai when time allowed to get a bit of getting knocked around full out. Getting your cage rattled now and then is good for you, kinda tests your mettle. I don't know if what I've writen helps you and your friend decide at all, but I hope you both train a long time, treat that training right and enjoy every second of it.

Kail

 

[zdanboy]

Hello again,

I wish to thank everyone, for their suggestions and bits of info. It helped me, and my friend a awful lot....really, I really appreciate it....

Regarding my friend....he is still undecided....and he added Kenpo into the choices....but reading th things you posted gave him a kick in the right direction....I think he will choose wisely....

As for me.....well......MT is out, cause the school is too far away....but......recently I found out about a a kung-fu style named Yiquan. This internal style (I think it is internal.....) has no forms (weird for a kung-fu style) and focuses on the intstict way of doing things......

I also heard it was based on Xingyiquan (Hsing-I).....

Anybody here heard about it? Or does someone know more about internal styles (Bagua, Taiji) ?

 

[olethros]

PM

Olethros ...How do you like praying mantis? That art has always facinated me since I saw a demonstration by an older shaolin priest that was living in San Francisco. He was an amazing man. He also knew many other styles from the temple.

I was lucky enough to find a school that is very traditional. The man that brought the style from China tests all the other Sifu's regularly to ensure they are correctly teaching the original techniques. He's pretty well respected not only in American by other Chinese masters, but also in China. (I've seen HK magazine do articles on him)

Someone once told me that you can tell a kung fu school is traditional if the training is as hard, if not harder, than US Army boot camp. Mind you this was meant as a joke but it gives you a good idea.

One the other hand, if I had to fight and experienced BJJ or MT practitioner I'd make sure I had a weapon. Those guys train fast and hard.