Tome of Battle - spells for fighters? How does that work?

[Nifft]

I would play Iron Heart Surge as more of a negative status and targeted spell removal maneuver than something that duplicates dispel magic, so that it removes fear effects, paralysis, slow, charm, etc., but it won't bring down a solid fog.

Iron Heart Surge needs some clarification (and the "official" CustServ interpretation needs to be smacked).

I think we'd play it the same way -- you can remove one Condition or targeted spell effect currently affecting you, but not an area effect (spell or otherwise). Thus, you could remove the Entangled condition, but not end an entangle spell.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Last year the dismissive comment of choice was "it's just a videogame". This year's dismissive comment of choice is "it's too anime".

I know. Someone (Remathilis, I think) sigged my "Godwin's Law, revised" concerning video game references.

You can see this in comments in General, but more in the 4th Edition forum.

(However, I still question why you keep bringing this up in this particular discussion.)

Cheers, -- N

Some people are saying, "Bo9S is about giving spells to fighters," and some people, including you, it seems, are responding "no, it's not spells. It just looks kind of like spells." My response is, "yeah, it's spells, and that's okay, because it works and it's cool." Hell, a swordsage of the Desert Wind school is a better, more cleverly integrated gish than the duskblade is. There's nothing wrong with bringing some magic to a sword fight. Grey Mouser did it all the time.

 

[Nifft]

I know. Someone (Remathilis, I think) sigged my "Godwin's Law, revised" concerning video game references.

Okay... so you did know why some people are sensitive about the comparison?

Some people are saying, "Bo9S is about giving spells to fighters," and some people, including you, it seems, are responding "no, it's not spells. It just looks kind of like spells." My response is, "yeah, it's spells, and that's okay, because it works and it's cool." Hell, a swordsage of the Desert Wind school is a better, more cleverly integrated gish than the duskblade is. There's nothing wrong with bringing some magic to a sword fight. Grey Mouser did it all the time.

My position is actually that maneuvers are spell-like in mechanics, but are a mix of magical and not magical.

So while I agree there's nothing wrong with bringing a magic sword (or a suite of sword magic) to a sword fight, I disagree that everyone using Maneuvers must be using magic.

I strongly disagree that choosing to use maneuvers dictates your character's flavor.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Okay... so you did know why some people are sensitive about the comparison?

Actually, my Naruto reference above was not to draw a link between Bo9S and anime in particular, but to the Asian movie martial arts trope of naming techniques things like "Swooping Crane Knee Extension," a style that Naruto shares.

And the quotation that got sigged is a send-up of the way people threadcrap and find things to complain about when they can't find a sensible way to say "I don't like this," that gets everyone else to agree with them.

"It's too videogamey!" ...thread spirals into oblivion, since the video game reference signals that everything has already been said on the subject, and only the trolls remain in the thread.

 

[Nifft]

Actually, my Naruto reference above was not

... Actually, that was not what I was referring to in the quoted text, but whatever.

It seems you've responded to none of the substantive points, and thus that you concede them. Yay! A victory for good mechanics not being tied to just one flavor.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Connorsrpg]

Wow - U2 really killed this thread.

 

[blargney the second]

Kae'yoss, that was a great summary of Bo9S. Just one quick clarification - warblades don't get heavy armor proficiency, nor do they get projectile weapons. This is important because it means they're in melee with medium armor, and a number of their abilities sacrifice AC for damage.

(In other words, they paint very big, easy to hit targets on themselves.)
-blarg

 

[AllisterH]

Actually, my Naruto reference above was not to draw a link between Bo9S and anime in particular, but to the Asian movie martial arts trope of naming techniques things like "Swooping Crane Knee Extension," a style that Naruto shares.

.

Er, the problem with this is that in "Western" martial arts, unarmed or armed, many "stances" and manoeuvers are also named. Even the simple "rabbit" punch is an example of Westerners giving a "fancy" name to an attack. Most western martial arts also use "names" but they tend to be simple and straightforward (e.g. an Eastern school might call it Stance of the Leaping Dragon and another Stance of the Preying Mantis where in the west they would simply say "assume Stance 1 or Stance 2")

As for the anime influence, do people not read Arabian fantasy anymore? Desert Wind is CLEARLY Arabian-influenced. From the signature weapon (the scimitar) to the HEAVY use of fire (major element of Arabian folktales unlike anime/wuxia which tend to use ki) to even the name (Desert Wind), the discipline is ARABIAN-derived.

AM I the only one that actually remembers Al-Qadim fondly?

As for being able to throw people 60', er, can't fighters already do this?

 

[blargney the second]

Heck, if you're bothered by the names of maneuvers (not the case for me), they spell it right out in the book: you can call them whatever you want, and describe them however you like. The flavor's the easy part to modify at that point because the mechanics already rock and are fun to use.
-blarg

 

[Sound of Azure]

Desert Wind is CLEARLY Arabian-influenced.

I agree. On the other hand, the Arabian nations are part of asia, too.