D&D General Tor-eal (1000 years after the Devils win the Blood War)

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Welcome to Tor-eal (pronounced tohr-ee-ahl). A strange world, with nearly no gods, no outer planes, no astral plane, and only the Elemental Planes, Ethereal Plane, and the Shadowfell and Feywild. Legends and elders say, that once, a millennia ago, there were many gods, dozens of them. There were demons, devils, and clerics to these living gods. Unfortunately, the Catastrophe changed that. The races of the world are changed, the Underdark is conquered by the psionic, tyrannical Duregair, who have the enslaved Dhaer people under their control. The surface is filled with many new races, from Surfneblins to the fearsome Hearthdrak Dragonborn, and the penitent, magic worshiping Goblinoids. Fiends of all kinds are nowhere to be found, and celestials protect coastal cities from awful krakens.

How it happened:

The ancient Blood War, the fiendish clash between forces of law and chaos, of tyrannical oppression and destructive freedom. Raging on for thousands of years, costing hundreds of mortal lives annually, as well as thousands of demon and devil lives, this war was despised by all, but also recognized as a "necessary evil" to maintain planar balance. This understanding revealed itself to be true, because when the balance between the forces of lawful evil and chaotic evil is disturbed, cataclysmic events follow. Though it now has been proven to be needed for planar balance, did nothing to stop the Devils from winning.

Throughout the centuries, others have tried to end the Blood War, like Zariel the fallen angel, and the previous Archduchess of Avernus, and Graz'zt, a previous Archdevil of Baator, and then Demon Lord of the Abyss. No one succeeded in winning the Blood War for all the millennia it was raging, but then that changed. How so, no one remembers, or at least no one is telling. Whomever meddled in the Blood War the last time favored the Devils, and allowed for them to destroy, or somehow rid the world of the demons. And truly, all the demons were gone. Lolth's worshippers lost their magic, Yeenoghu's fierce race of hyena-shaped humanoids, the Gnolls, were released from his control, and all cultists of the demon lords lost their abyssal power.

With the Demons gone, the Devils were mostly unrivaled in the Lower Planes, and they easily subjugated the Yugoloths. Banishing the Orc gods and Goblin gods from Acheron to Carceri, the Devils conquered the Lower Planes. The Celestials were slow to act. Firstly dumbfounded by the events that unfolded to allow this to happen, they started arguing about possible solutions to this problem. A group of them wanted to attack and obliterate the Devils, but the other side claimed that they should cautiously thank the Devils for ridding the multiverse of the feral demons. The Celestials ended up taking the more peaceful option, not wanting to provoke the Devils, and possibly bring upon themselves their fiendish wrath.

A contract was created. The Celestials and Devils agreed upon these terms:

1. The Upper Planes were for the Celestials, and were not to be attacked by the Devils.
2. The Lower Planes were for the Devils, and were not to be attacked by the Celestials.
3. The people of the Inner and Material Planes were allowed to worship whomever they chose, with no otherworldly interference.

The Devils allowed the Celestials to draft up the contract, and signed it, smiling at the simplicity of it.

They then took advantage of it. Immediately noticing its faults, they gathered their forces and attacked Mechanus. Asmodeus slew Primus, and took his place as the leader of the Modrons. Outraged, the Celestials claimed that the Devils broke the contract. The Devils slyly smiled and said they did no such thing. The Celestials, noticing the fault in their agreement, saw no option except attacking Mechanus, trying to slay Asmodeus. Failing at destroying the seemingly endless armies of the newly fiendish modrons, the Celestials retreated, losing many of their numbers.

The Devils, now attacked Mount Celestia, taking the plane, and slaying many of the gods. Tiamat aided by Dispater slew Bahamut, Asmodeus killed Torm and Tyr on his own, and so on. The Celestials, noticing that they had no chance at overtaking the Devils, used their last moments in the Outer Planes to weaken the barriers of Carceri, allowing the Goblin and Orc deities to escape. The Celestials and all the gods (except Tiamat and Asmodeus) fled to the Inner Planes, and in an act of desperation to protect the races they worked so hard creating, they sacrificed themselves to create a barrier around the Inner Planes, cutting off the Outer Planes forever. The Astral Plane was cut off, Sigil no longer accessible, and there was no way for the Devils to invade the Inner Planes. Though many of the gods that sacrificed themselves were evil, and never cooperated with anyone before, they saw the need in this dire situation, and were willing to give their lives for the people of the Inner Planes. And, chaos ensued.

The Celestials made their home in the Elemental Plane of Air, with the Angels protecting the Material Plane from threats that may destroy them without this celestial aid. The Devils conquered all of the Outer Planes, dominating the Gith of the Outer Planes, and searching for any way to get inside the Inner Planes. Though most of the gods died, the Shadowfell-dwelling deity, the Raven Queen, survived the Catastrophe.

What happened to the races:

The Blood War ended 79 years before the gods died. This is important for 4 races, listed below:

• Drow
• Orcs
• Gnolls
• Goblinoids

Let's start:

Drow: When Lolth died, or was banished, or otherwise gone from the multiverse, her clerics lost their power. They lost all their demons, all divine power, and became substantially weaker. Noticing the lack of power and leadership among their matron mothers and priestesses, the drow mages (mostly, but not completely male), overthrew the oppressive society that the matriarchy had festered. Becoming a magocracy, the new drow society mostly remained in the Underdark, allowing their slaves to go free, slaying their spiders, and a few thousand drow journeyed to the surface to see what belonged in the world above. About 56 years after founding their new government based on arcane magic, still severely weakened by the loss of their fiendish allies and divine power, an army of Duergar, their slaves, and aiding devils came to Menzoberranzan, and started attacking the Drow. After the mages of the army were slain, the Drow surrendered to the Duergar, becoming slaves to their awful new masters.

The psionic duergar tortured and mutilated the drow with psychic powers for a thousand years. Now, they are barely recognizable, and are a purply-gray skinned race of dark-elven heritage. They are now known as the Dhaer, are are a skinny people, with glowing blue eyes, inconsistent personalities, and horrid speech patterns.

Though the drow who remained in the Underdark were taken prisoner by the Duergar, many Drow already left the underground to become a new race of people, over the millennia losing their weakness in sunlight, and gaining a culture of worshipping the stars. This race became known among the surface dwellers as Surdrae, and are a benevolent people.

Gnolls: When the demon lords were defeated, and were erased from the Multiverse, gnolls immediately noticed a difference. Normally driven by the fear and hunger inflicted upon them by Yeenoghu, Gnolls are maddened with savagery. When Yeenoghu no longer had a hold on them, they lost these overwhelming emotions, and felt strange. For the first time in their lives, they didn't feel motivated to do anything. Then, they all felt anger at how they had been dominated for centuries, and they fell upon their humanoid cultist companions, devouring them. With this final act of savagery, consuming humanoid flesh cleansed them of their bestial nature, and caused them to feel shame for how they acted for those hundreds of years. They vowed never to do so again, throwing off their horrid jewelry, clothes, armor, and weapons made from humanoid remains, burying them, and became a peaceful race. As they attempted to be redeemed for their transgressions, as the demonic influence of them slowly left, half of the gnolls transformed into female versions of their race.

Travelling north of the High Forest, in between the Nether Mountains, founding a town in the hills populated at the time by 7,500 gnolls. Now, there are now around 150 million gnolls scattered across northern Faerun, with around 100 million of them living in this city, known as Zeer-Han (Our-Home in Gnollish). They also created a new language, which was a mix of their previous language, the Orc language, and Common.

Orcs: The Orcs were devastated by the Catastrophe. First, when their gods were imprisoned in Carceri, they lost most of their contact with them, and communication was hazier and harder to do. Their societies revolved around consistent contact with their deities, and so they descended into chaos. Tribal leaders were chosen based on guesses, marriages were assigned by a priest of Luthic based on their own interpretations and not on direct omens from their pantheon. Orc society still functioned for the several generations, but among the clergy of their gods, they were slowly becoming more and more disoriented.

Then, when their gods were released 79 years longer, they started receiving many omens and proclamations from their gods, but these were different. They weren't filled with rage, anger, or fierce emotions like before. No, instead, they were tired, solemn messages admitting guilt of dragging their followers into an eternal pointless war. The orc gods let them be free of their traditions, and told them that unless they stop hurting the other races, they will never be happy. This destroyed orcish society. The younger generations called the older generations to let go of their traditions and savage ways. The older generations remembered the tales of the omens of their gods, and confirmed that these messages were legitimate.

Over the course of many years, most orc tribes of Toril abandoned their previous ways. They stopped raiding, killing, and abusing others. They vowed to protect the wilds they once took advantage of, and created a new culture of nature worshippers, druids, and rangers. They started patrolling forests, fields, plains, and the other wilds, and protecting the land from destruction and molestation.

Goblinoids: Much like the Orcs, the goblinoids lost contact with their gods for generations, but because their society was not rooted in tradition that was dependent on direct, constant contact with their gods, much of their ways were not changed during this time period. Small, mostly unimportant changes did happen, such as hobgoblins no longer being born with bright blue and red noses, and their souls no longer traveling to Acheron after death, and divine magic no longer seemed to be forbidden, or at least it wasn't punished by the gods during this time. Some traditions did fall way, due to the lack of surveillance by their deities, and the elders claimed that the younger people were being swayed by devilish temptations. When their gods were released, unlike the Orcs, they received no messages, omens, or communications of any kind.

When Maglubiyet and the other goblinoid gods were freed from Carceri, they were weary from their battles in Carceri against the orc gods, and what other monstrosities lie in that fiendish plane. Tired, weakened, and unmotivated to start another war against the impossibly powerful Devils, Maglubiyet commanded his pantheon to flee to the Material Plane and protect it from the Devils. They received news of what the other gods were doing, and grudgingly agreed, knowing it was for the best of the races they had wronged for so many ages. Not once during this entire period of time during their release did they bother to attempt to contact their loyal servitor races. They then sacrificed themselves alongside the other gods, and once again left their people.

When the goblinoids learned of the events that transpired, and the fact that their gods killed themselves to protect the people of this world, they were shocked. Utter chaos followed. Bugbears, consumed by utter rage and disappointment in the weakness of their deities, overthrew the society of the oppression. The goblins fell under their sway, and obeyed the new leaders of the goblinoid cast. Immediately after the gods' deaths, with Mystra and the Weave being destroyed once more, magic reformed. No god or goddess of magic was recreated. No tapestry of the universe, connecting threads of magic, was respun. Magic was left fractured for 24 hours, causing magic to fail during that time, similar to the Spellplague. Magic reformed, united once again, but it was different. There was no Weave. Instead of a vast flowing source of magic throughout the world, magic seemed to connect things more. "Strings" of magic connected all objects in the universe to seemingly every other. Magic started effecting the world around it. An act of substantial magic near a powerful spellcaster could temporarily or permanently change the area around them. A cleric resurrecting a creature from the dead could cause the grass around them to start glowing, or a necromancer creating a skeleton could cause bones to rattle on the ground around them. Magic and the world was more interconnected. The presence of an archmage in a village could cause Wild Magic Sorcerers to be born, or an angel could cause the births of Aasimar.

Hobgoblin Devastators were the first among the goblinoids to notice this change. With the permission of the bugbears, they were allowed to study it. They created notes, journals, and collected knowledge about it. They called this new source of magic "Yikare", which was Goblin for "The Law". Soon, the goblinoids literally started worshipping it. Bugbears became clergy (Arcana Clerics), Goblins were blessed with divine and arcane power due to these clergy, named Booyehgs (Divine Soul Sorcerers), and Hobgoblins trained more wizards, them being called Dehvoes. They even adopted 3 new commandments that were adapted from observations about the Yikare. These commandments were:

1. Magic chooses, and can be chosen. Revere and serve the Choosers, Chosen, and Chosen-Choosers.
2. Protect, and receive protection. Harm, and be harmed.
3. Do freely until others cannot freely do.

The goblinoids established numerous amounts of settlements, all with allegiances to each other as long as they followed these 3 commandments. Most other races, except Verdan, were normally banned from travel into their cities, which were mago-theocracies. They are independent of nations and other peoples, but are allowed to trade with them, but other humanoids are pitied by goblinoids due to their lack of worship of magic.

Surfneblin (Surface Deep Gnomes): When the duergar marched in the Underdark to capture the Drow, the svirfneblin watched in horror, unable to do anything. With a sense of self-preservation acting, the inhabitants of Blingdenstone fled to the surface, most of them settling down in Silverymoon at first. Over the centuries, they were eventually mostly assimilated across Faerun, with around 1.5 million in numbers. When the gods died, Svirfneblin lost their ability to control Earth Elementals, but otherwise, their society was not changed much. Though their true names are Svirfneblin, the people of the surface world have adopted the name of "Surfneblin" as a mockery of their contradictory nature.

Verdan: The Verdan, who before the Catastrophe had no people, no cities, no culture, and no religion. In a way, this was a boon. They had no ties, no society to fracture, and no foundations to be shattered. Due to this, and their reaction to this event was mainly calm. When they were first created, there were only about 1,000 Verdan. Now, scattered across Tor-eal, there are more than 2 million verdan, filling many positions in day to day life.

When the Catastrophe occurred, these calm and mellow goblinoids reasonably, which was beneficial to them as a people. For example, in Waterdeep, while the city was scrambling from the deaths of Laeral Silverhand, Vajra Safahr, a few Masked Lords, and the destruction of the Blackstaff and Blackstaff Tower, a verdan man named Wural Ulmokina, who was only 28 years old at the time, was able to rally together Waterdeep and be elected as the first High Magistrate of Waterdeep. The government became a democracy, and the High Magistrate was elected every 12 years, voted out of office when they lost popularity or died of old age. Wural was a compotent and charismatic leader, who allowed Gnolls, Orcs, Drow, Goblinoids, and Svirfneblin into the city 8 years into his first term. He was able to protect the city from the Second Dragon-Giant war, and was elected for 9 terms, serving 108 years.

This, and many other instances of Verdan reacting well to this stressful situation, allowed them to do well in their communities, becoming lawyers, politicians, public speakers, actors, musicians, and in general, great friends to people of all races. They were even well known enough to be openly accepted into goblinoid cities, though they were looked down on still unless they were practitioners of magic.

Dragonborn: Similar to Verdan, Dragonborn were fairly new to Toril when the Catastrophe ocurred, but they did have a culture and traditions. A few dragonborn had adopted the worship of Faerunian gods, such as Torm, Tyr, Helm, and Bahamut, but not a substantial amount of them were followers of gods for the Catastrophe to destroy their culture. At the start of the Catastrophe, they remained relatively the same physically, socially, and socially, but they eventually began to change, thanks to the Second Dragon-Giant War. They split into two groups, not divided by color, heritage, physical differences of any kind, but instead philosophical differences. They were named as the following:

Hearthdrak. These dragonborn sided with the dragons in the Second Dragon-Giant War, aiding them in war, and attempting to unite their people against the giants. They remained the war until its end, and fought well, but they weren't reunited with the people they split from. In modern Tor-eal, they are physically different, more charismatic and intimidating, and are able to frighten people.

Othrilers. These dragonborn fundamentally disagreed with the assertions of the Hearthdrak. They didn't think the larger and otherworldly races were worth following, and instead decided to turn against them. They don't like any race that they claim "pretends" to be better or more powerful than them. They remember their subjugation and enslavement under the dragons and primorials on Abeir, how the gods would take advantage of them, and they reject other races.

Mind Flayers: The illithids of Toril were stunned by the events that became known by the humanoids and celestials as "the Catastrophe". Instead of adopting that name, the Mind Flayers at first called it the "Opportunity" and eventually called it "The Changing". Seizing the moment, the Mind Flayers took advantage of the moment of insanity and chaos on Toril, while the numbers of Gith on the planet were small in numbers. They first sent their thralls to steal white dragon eggs, and kidnap sleeping white dragons. They then transformed the captured dragons into Brainstealer Dragons, brainwashed the newly hatched dragons into serving them, and luring multiple dens of kobolds into Mind Flayer bases, where they were gathered up into their remaining fleet of spelljamming ships, where they fled into Realmspace to leave before they were stopped from leaving. During the millennia following, they warped the Kobolds into a new race known as the Coalbs, and bred their brainwashed white dragons with sun dragons, to produce radiant dragons.

Gith: Though they were were separated from their home planes and commands from their superiors, the Gith who were in the Inner Planes at the time of the Gods' Sacrifice were able to unite as a single race. Led by a Shasal'Kou Githyanki named Xei'karr, both the Githzerai and Githyanki united to start a faction of illithid and aberration hunters known as the Telairkarr. The united gith race, now known as the Githxei (gith-xay), recruited humans, surface drow, and gnomes to help them in their quest to track down and destroy the Illithids in Realmspace and the Inner Planes.

This is what I have so far. Clearly, there are a lot more races for me to add, and more information and lore to update, but I wanted to put this here just as a test. What are your thoughts on it? Any advice?

 

[ccs]

How it happened:

The ancient Blood War, the fiendish clash between forces of law and chaos, of tyrannical oppression and destructive freedom. Raging on for thousands of years, costing hundreds of mortal lives annually, as well as thousands of demon and devil lives, this war was despised by all, but also recognized as a "necessary evil" to maintain planar balance. This understanding ~~~

Only hundreds & thousands of lives? That's pretty cheap to maintain cosmic balance.

 

[Coroc]

You really blew up FR good

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Looks good.

I don’t find the whole cosmic contract mechanus thing appealing or convincing, but I don’t think the details actually matter that much. It’d be fun to play in.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Only hundreds & thousands of lives? That's pretty cheap to maintain cosmic balance.

I didn't mention the souls needed to fuel it, and other problems. The point of my making this was mainly to show how messed up/changed the world might be with this outcome.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

You really blew up FR good

IMHO, the FR needs a bit of blowing up.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Looks good.

Thanks!

I don’t find the whole cosmic contract mechanus thing appealing or convincing, but I don’t think the details actually matter that much. It’d be fun to play in.

They probably don't matter much, but I wanted to provide a possible set of events. The history given in the post is what the Celestials would have told the world. It may or may not be true. If anything, Ao could have killed the gods, and done the separating of the planes.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Also, in this world, Orcs would have the Stats of Eberron Orcs, Goblinoids would be the same (but if the Race Feature Variants allows them to switch ASIs from races, the bugbears would have a +2 to Wisdom instead of Strength. The Goblins would take a +1 to Charisma most of the time, not Con, and the Hobgoblins would take a +2 to Intelligence, and +1 Constitution), and gnolls would be a playable race (I have not made this yet).

I'll add more lore soon, with more races being updated as well.

Anyone have any comments on the races?

 

[dave2008]

IMHO, the FR needs a bit of blowing up.

You would have loved 4e FR then

 

[dave2008]

Thanks for sharing. However, I have a few issues with your concept:

1. It paints the celestials and gods as complete idiots on several accounts. Too slow to act? Surprised the devils deceived them? Come on, these are entities with eons of experience and intelligence and comprehension well beyond mortals and they couldn't react or be prepared for such events? IDK, just seems like you took the easy way out. I would rather you just said the gods are dead and don't explain it.
2. What happened to the primordials?
3. I have little to no interest in playing in a setting without gods
4. Change in races: I don't see anything that really interest me, but I didn't get through it all.

My question for you: why use the back drop of FR or the blood war at all? You have essential created a new unique setting, why make it vaguely connected to FR? I mean it basically has nothing to do with the FR.

To clarify, I have no love for FR. I've never used it (or any published setting) and probably never will.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

You would have loved 4e FR then

Nah, not that kind of blowing up. The Spellplague was too weird, with things happening just "because". For some reason, Mystra's death caused Abeir and Toril to merge, which there was absolutely no lore reason for, except that they wanted Dragonborn to be a main player race. Azuth fell into the Nine Hells just because they wanted Asmodeus to become a god. The whole event was because they wanted to rearrange the cosmology a bit.

In this world, the cosmology isn't re-arranged, it's more blocked off, if anything. All events that happened are based on what I would think would happen if the Blood War ended with the Devils winning, and the changes to the races are based on what happens in the events coming up to this.

 

[dave2008]

Nah, not that kind of blowing up. The Spellplague was too weird, with things happening just "because". For some reason, Mystra's death caused Abeir and Toril to merge, which there was absolutely no lore reason for, except that they wanted Dragonborn to be a main player race. Azuth fell into the Nine Hells just because they wanted Asmodeus to become a god. The whole event was because they wanted to rearrange the cosmology a bit.

In this world, the cosmology isn't re-arranged, it's more blocked off, if anything. All events that happened are based on what I would think would happen if the Blood War ended with the Devils winning, and the changes to the races are based on what happens in the events coming up to this.

IDK, to me it seems more like what you want to happen then a logical exercise of what would happen. It seems nearly as arbitrary as the 4e changes to me. But again I am an outside with no great love or knowledge of FR lore. Not sure if that makes me a better or worse judge!

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

It paints the celestials and gods as complete idiots on several accounts. Too slow to act? Surprised the devils deceived them? Come on, these are entities with eons of experience and intelligence and comprehension well beyond mortals and they couldn't react or be prepared for such events? IDK, just seems like you took the easy way out. I would rather you just said the gods are dead and don't explain it.

Again, this is just the explanation the Celestials gave the people of the world. If it's correct, they might have left out key information. If it's false, it's probably for a shameful reason, like Ao killed the gods and separated the Inner Planes from the Outer Planes as a punishment and protection.
This explanation isn't "official lore" but more of what scholars of Tor-eal have been told for years.

What happened to the primordials?

They're still in Abeir.

I have little to no interest in playing in a setting without gods

Okay, then. There is still the Raven Queen and Vecna, but I'll get to that later. So, do you not like Eberron, Ravnica, or Dark Sun?

Change in races: I don't see anything that really interest me, but I didn't get through it all.

Okay.

My question for you: why use the back drop of FR or the blood war at all? You have essential created a new unique setting, why make it vaguely connected to FR? I mean it basically has nothing to do with the FR.

This was the product of me asking "what would happen if the devils won the blood war, fast forward 1000 years". I chose the Forgotten Realms because it's the one most connected to the Blood War, I know a lot of lore on it, and it's meant to basically be a new setting. Additionally, lots of the original cities still exist, like Waterdeep, Silverymoon, and Baldur's Gate.

To clarify, I have no love for FR. I've never used it (or any published setting) and probably never will.

Okay.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

IDK, to me it seems more like what you want to happen then a logical exercise of what would happen. It seems nearly as arbitrary as the 4e changes to me. But again I am an outside with no great love or knowledge of FR lore. Not sure if that makes me a better or worse judge!

What happens is definitely partly due to my own specific end to the Blood War. How the blood war ends is dependent on each DMs perspective of it. Mine is definitely different from what yours would be.

If you don't like it, don't feel the need to comment. Thanks for expressing your opinion. I've worked on this long enough to be motivated to keep doing so.

 

[dave2008]

Again, this is just the explanation the Celestials gave the people of the world. If it's correct, they might have left out key information. If it's false, it's probably for a shameful reason, like Ao killed the gods and separated the Inner Planes from the Outer Planes as a punishment and protection.
This explanation isn't "official lore" but more of what scholars of Tor-eal have been told for years.

I get that,, but is clearly the one you prefer or it wouldn't be the story that is told for years. It just seems to me an odd conclusion based on the premise of what would happen if the devils won the blood war. But if that is what you want, so be it.

They're still in Abeir.

But they were not all in Abeir to begin with - I provided that info in the other tread. I think the better options is just to ignore them. They were canon in 4e, but necessarily in 5e. I don't think there has been anything official regarding primordials in 5e FR.

Okay, then. There is still the Raven Queen and Vecna, but I'll get to that later. So, do you not like Eberron, Ravnica, or Dark Sun?

Great, two pseudo-gods JK

To clarify I have no issue with settings that don't have gods. I just don't want to play in them. As I mentioned previously i don't play in published settings, of the ones listed I would be most interested in Eberron (which does have gods BTW), but again I don't use published settings.

PS. Didn't you say Tiamat and Asmodeus survived as well? I'm glad my favorite dragon goddess made it BTW

This was the product of me asking "what would happen if the devils won the blood war, fast forward 1000 years". I chose the Forgotten Realms because it's the one most connected to the Blood War, I know a lot of lore on it, and it's meant to basically be a new setting. Additionally, lots of the original cities still exist, like Waterdeep, Silverymoon, and Baldur's Gate.

Again, I find it an odd conclusion - but we all see what we want see. I do get the idea of still using existing geographies, though I assume you are planning to discuss how these have changed over the 1,000 yrs. Heck after 1,000 yrs RL cities can have major transformation.

Finally, I am sorry I've come out bit negative about this thread / idea. I think a lot of what your're suggesting is interesting and I looked forward to what else you share. I just have a problem with the history, I can't get were you got from where you started with my perspective of the outer planes, fiends, & celestials. It just doesn't track logically to me, but that is a me issue and I don't think you are interested in looking at the details of that history. As to not derail you any further I will not bring it up again.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I get that,, but is clearly the one you prefer or it wouldn't be the story that is told for years. It just seems to me an odd conclusion based on the premise of what would happen if the devils won the blood war. But if that is what you want, so be it.

It's the easier explanation, and the first one I came up with. I like that explanation, the Ao one, and others could also be told and be valid, but since it was the first I came up with, it has the most relevance to the lore at this point.

But they were not all in Abeir to begin with - I provided that info in the other tread. I think the better options is just to ignore them. They were canon in 4e, but necessarily in 5e. I don't think there has been anything official regarding primordials in 5e FR.

Okay. Most of them are in Abeir, and aren't the others the Elemental Evils and other elemental creatures? If they were in the Outer Planes, they're dead or cut off. If they were in the Inner Planes, they might be up to their own thing.

I've checked, and there's not really any 5e lore regarding the primordials. I might add them later. I do have another post filled with lore coming soon.

To clarify I have no issue with settings that don't have gods. I just don't want to play in them. As I mentioned previously i don't play in published settings, of the ones listed I would be most interested in Eberron (which does have gods BTW), but again I don't use published settings.

That's fine.
(Eberron does have gods, but it's not clear whether or not they actually exist)

PS. Didn't you say Tiamat and Asmodeus survived as well? I'm glad my favorite dragon goddess made it BTW

Yes, but they're in the Outer Planes, and are cut off. Anyone who was a cleric or cultist to them when the separation of the planes happened lost their powers.

Again, I find it an odd conclusion - but we all see what we want see. I do get the idea of still using existing geographies, though I assume you are planning to discuss how these have changed over the 1,000 yrs. Heck after 1,000 yrs RL cities can have major transformation.

Yes, some things will change. Not much. The surface geography won't change a ton, but there will be more cities, larger cities, and so on. Waterdeep has around 150 million people in that region now, and they're fairly advanced.

Finally, I am sorry I've come out bit negative about this thread / idea. I think a lot of what your're suggesting is interesting and I looked forward to what else you share. I just have a problem with the history, I can't get were you got from where you started with my perspective of the outer planes, fiends, & celestials. It just doesn't track logically to me, but that is a me issue and I don't think you are interested in looking at the details of that history. As to not derail you any further I will not bring it up again.

Thanks for your input, though.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Okay, here's more lore:

Minotaurs: Similar to Gnolls and Drow, they were freed at the end of the Blood War. No longer bound to their abyssal god, Baphomet, the Minotaurs were confused. They no longer had a purpose in the world, but did have a place. Becoming a fierce, but unbound race of people, they no longer had a unifying reason for existence, so they started with the basics, survival. Though they already lived in caves and dungeons, they no longer felt satisfied with their lives of terrorizing others, and hiding in dungeons worshipping dark evils. As a people, the Minotaurs left their ruinous dungeons and labyrinthine caves, and formed settlements in the forests and woods of Faerun.

At first, they were attacked by Wood Elves and other feyish and plant inhabitants of these forests, but they were powerful and strong enough to drive them out of their forests and to the north. The Minotaurs, not sure of much in the world except for the fact that they hate elves and fey, started logging. They chopped down trees, using the branches of them as fuels for fire, and with the logs they build wooden forts surrounded by mazes of wood, keeping out intruders, but easily passed through by the Minotaurs.

As the millennia went on, the Minotaurs lost their savage and brutal ways (still having no love for elves and fey), and became less monstrous. Shrinking in size, due to them no longer being cultists to Baphomet, and becoming more and more human-like, the Minotaurs became another race of humanoids. Now a race of forest-dwelling, logging, and fortress building people, they started trade with other races. Gnolls needed wood for their city's buildings, and the minotaurs needing hides and fabrics for clothing and art. Minotaurs even developed their own language, called Minotaur, which was a mix of Orc, Abyssal, and Common. They eventually learned the ways of masonry, reinforcing their fortresses with stone walls and foundations.

Nowadays, a Minotaur settlement is a fearsome place. Fortresses filled with trophies and hides of slain creatures, no one of elven or feyish descent allowed within a mile of a fortress, the roofs of the castles made out of wood, but covered in fire-proof hides. They no longer a savage and brutal people, but are an industrious and hard-working people. Their fortresses are ever-expanding, many of their fortresses have mines underneath, and forges inside, billowing smoke 24 hours a day. They're master weaponsmiths with a love for gold, whose art shows them conquering woodland creatures, treants, and druids, as well as the rise of their society. They have no religion, except capitalism. They have few laws, except that harming other minotaurs is not allowed. They trade often, but not with Elves or Firbolg.

Aboleths: Residents of Toril for millenia, who dwelled here before the gods, and after the gods. Resenting all things holy for these many, many years, the Aboleths were pleased when the gods died. Finally, their patience and plotting would benefit them. Their first task as a race was to come together, and dominate the Kuo-Toa, who had fled to the ocean to avoid destruction by the Duergar. Claiming to be their gods, the Aboleths gained the complete faith and devotion of the Kuo-Toa people.

Next, they waited. It took over 28 years, but then it happened. Carefully calculating the actions of the other races, the Aboleths waited for the Illithids to leave Toril. Noticing how they kidnapped White Dragons, the Abolteths took advantage of this situation. They sent their Kuo-Toa to an underwater cave containing Bronze Dragon eggs, destroying them. They planted evidence implicating the Storm Giants in this act. When the Dragons noticed, they were infuriated. United together, the Dragons declared war on the Giants, starting the Second Dragon-Giant War.

While the war was raging, and the giants and dragons were distracted, they Aboleths swam deep into the ocean floor to the lairs of sleeping krakens. Dominating a few krakens, taking control of them, and unleashing them upon the Storm Giant strongholds of the ocean. The Krakens destroyed the Storm Giants' homes, forcing them to leave the ocean, and allowing the Aboleths to have control of the oceans of Toril. Attacking settlements on the Sword Coast, and the settlements of underwater races, they were able to ravage the races who depended on the oceans. They forced the Aquatic Elves to flee up rivers, now making their homes closer to other races, mostly in the docks of other cities, or in lakes. The Tritons left the oceans and travelled back to the Elemental Plane of Water. Merrow and Sahuagin started worshipping the krakens. Merfolk, also going up rivers, became nomadic, building no permanent homes in the rivers or lakes of the Sword Coast.

Though they had the Krakens, the Aboleths were not yet able to conquer the humanoids of Toril, for one pesky reason: the Angels. After the Catastrophe, the Solars, Planetars, and Devas decided to help the humanoid races recover from the calamitous events that occurred. Soon afterwards, the Second Dragon-Giant War started, and they Angels decided to stay to protect the cities from the dragons. Then, just as the war was raging on, the Aboleths seized control of the oceans, and the Angels had to remain to protect the cities on the coasts.

Giants: The giants have had a rough couple millennia. First, Annam sent the runt Hartkiller to inform the giants that Annam was not pleased with them, and that they needed to change their ways. Infuriated, the Giants then slew Hartkiller, provoking Annam's wrath. Next, Annam was forced to abandon his children, and he revoked the Ordning, causing chaos to fill Giantish society, and a war with the smaller races is almost provoked by a scheming ancient blue dragon. Finally, Annam returns to Toril for the last time, with just enough time to tell the Giants that they are failures and to give up on Ostoria, he then sacrifices himself to protect the humanoid races of Toril, along with all of their other gods.

The giants were angry. Looked down on by their patron deity for centuries, like a disappointed father looks at a disappointing son. At first, they could not accept that the smaller races might be superior to them in any way. Begrudgingly following the last commandment of Annam, the giants give up their traditions. Having no gods to serve, no ordning to order them, and their culture completely collapsing, the giants were fractured. The Storm Giants no longer were higher in giantish society than Hill Giants, or any other giant.

Then, disaster struck again. First, the Fire and Stone Giants were forced out of the Underdark by Duergar. Next, the Dragons, chromatic and metallic, united to attack the giants, with no explanation of why. The giants, weakened and desperate, fought back. This was their only purpose at the time, the only thing that gave them a purpose, and it was to rid the world of the horrid dragons. Their fractured society reformed, but differently. No type of giant was automatically higher in ranking than others, instead they were led by a champion. Each settlement of giants worked together to fight against the dragons, and any giant who slew a dragon gained a score. This score was marked by dragon-scales, which they put on their armor to mark their ranking in the caste. The older a dragon slain by a giant, the higher ranking they received. In a giant village, the giant whose armor contained the most dragon scales, marked with a rune marking their achiements on each set of scales, became the clan's champion, and they commanded their settlement in battle.

After 86 years of the Second Dragon-Giant War, the giant strongholds in the ocean were attacked by krakens, who were controlled by Aboleths. Now discovering that it was the Aboleths who started the Second Dragon-Giant War, the Giants were forced out of the ocean. Their society now revolved around this war, and the only way to gain ranking was through the war. The Giants kept this discovery to themselves, but they were weakened from the war. They needed aid, so they turned to the Goliaths and Firbolg. The Goliaths were willing to help them in the war, but the Firbolg were currently in chaos due to the new presence of the Minotaurs in their woods, and turned down the invitation to an alliance. The Urtgardt Barbarian tribes joined the Giants in an alliance for battle.

The Second Giant-Dragon War continued for 655 years, with heavy casualties on both the giant and dragon sides. The humanoids who served the giants (goliaths, urtgardt barbarians) became rivals of those that served the dragons in the war (kobolds, lizardfolk, hearthdrak dragonborn). The war ended with a forced stalemate, with an intervention from the Celestials forcing them to stop fighting, as it was too destructive for the other races.

 

[dave2008]

Aboleths: Residents of Toril for millenia, who dwelled here before the gods, and after the gods. Resenting all things holy for these many, many years, the Aboleths were pleased when the gods died. Finally, their patience and plotting would benefit them. Their first task as a race was to come together, and dominate the Kuo-Toa, who had fled to the ocean to avoid destruction by the Duergar. Claiming to be their gods, the Aboleths gained the complete faith and devotion of the Kuo-Toa people.

Next, they waited. It took over 28 years, but then it happened. Carefully calculating the actions of the other races, the Aboleths waited for the Illithids to leave Toril. Noticing how they kidnapped White Dragons, the Abolteths took advantage of this situation. They sent their Kuo-Toa to an underwater cave containing Bronze Dragon eggs, destroying them. They planted evidence implicating the Storm Giants in this act. When the Dragons noticed, they were infuriated. United together, the Dragons declared war on the Giants, starting the Second Dragon-Giant War.

I think aboleths (or Yuan-ti) taking advantage of the upheaval makes a lot of sense. The aboleths have been essentially waiting and plotting for just this situation for eons. However,...

Dominating a few krakens,...

...how does this work? By simple "power" and stat block the aboleths don't have much of a chance (heck the kraken only needs to roll a 3 to prevent being dominated.) against the krakens.

I do think the Kraken's make natural allies, but I think the aboleths would have a more elaborate plan that:

1) doesn't rely on them "dominating" the Krakens
2) has more layers and contingencies

Regardless I like where this is going.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

(or Yuan-ti)

Oh, they're definitely coming.

I think aboleths taking advantage of the upheaval makes a lot of sense. The aboleths have been essentially waiting and plotting for just this situation for eons.

Yes, definitely. They have an agenda, and it's going to take awhile to bring about, but Aboleths are patient. They need the Celestials gone, and are working towards this.

...how does this work? By simple "power" and stat block the aboleths don't have much of a chance (heck the kraken only needs to roll a 3 to prevent being dominated.) against the krakens.

They would succeed most of the time, but with enough Aboleths trying enough times, this would work. They only need a few krakens, and death is just a minor annoyance to them, so if they try enough, they'll eventually succeed at enslaving a few.

I do think the Kraken's make natural allies, but I think the aboleths would have a more elaborate plan that:

1) doesn't rely on them "dominating" the Krakens
2) has more layers and contingencies

Regardless I like where this is going.

Sure, that's a possibility, as well. I chose the "domination/enslavement" route mainly to make it so the Aboleths had complete control of the oceans. Aboleths don't do cooperation, they want to be at the top, IMO.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Okay, here's a bit more:
Yuan-Ti: These demon worshipping snake people, like the aboleths and illithids, benefited from the Catastrophe more than they lost from it. They did lose, almost everyone lost in the Catastrophe in some way, but they also accomplished much of their agenda. They worshipped demons and serpent gods, both of which died during the Catastrophe, but their society did not fall. They still have slaves, a whole race of people under their complete control (broodguards) and the warlocks did not lose their power. Still, they were disoriented from the Catastrophe. Mershaulk and Sseth seemed to have died, and the only patron of the Yuan-Ti that was replying was Dendar the Night Serpent, who their whole societies started revolving around.

Over the centuries, their culture became more and more engrained in nightmares, sleep, and started being seen as the bogeymen of Toril. Becoming a nocturnal race of stealthy snake-primordial serving monsters, they sent spies across the world as Dendar commanded them. The race being changed by Dendar the Night Serpent, gaining the power to curse persistent nightmares upon unsuspecting creatures. Yuan-Ti Purebloods are effectively wiped out, and are all replaced by this race, or this stat block.

After centuries of scheming and serving their awful lady, Dendar the Night Serpent, the Yuan-Ti were finally able to free her. With her strength greatly increased by her servants' terrible devotion, she was able to communicate with her followers and reveal her location. Hidden behind an iron door leading to the Underworld underneath a mountain in Chult, she guided her servants to her foul location, who freed her from her prison 666 years after the Catastrophe. The god Ubtao, who was tasked with guarding this gate had abandoned the people of Chult, taking the city of Mezro with him. Fortunately for the world, he did not die during the Catastrophe, as he was not a resident of the Outer Planes.

With Dendar finally freed, she unleashed her horrific terror upon the world, at first devouring the Yuan-Ti who were present at the moment of her freedom. The Night Serpent flew south, devouring everything in her path, from trees, to stone, to earth and all the creatures that were in her path. Arriving at the Snout of Omgar, she devoured the island, growing in size, and destroying the homeland of the Tortles. Then, heading north, Dendar spent five days assailing the continent of Chult, destroying much of the jungle, consuming many undead residents of the jungle, and causing a cacophony of screams in her wake.

On the fifth day of Dendar's freedom, Ubtao sensed her release. He had been awarded the continent of Chult for his help in the war against the primordials at the beginning of the world, and was tasked with guarding the gate to Dendar's prison. Feeling a sense of duty to the world, Ubtao returned with the holy city of Mezro, and he, with the help of his barae, were able to re-imprison Dendar beneath the mountain in which she resided, and promised to stay watching that gate until the end of time to make sure Dendar never was released again.

After Dendar's re-imprisonment, with the population of Yuan-Ti significantly reduced by their "goddess's" devouring of her releasers, they hid in the shadows of the world. Still plotting for the day when they would re-release Dendar, they glide silently through the night, spreading horrible dreams through the minds of unconscious creatures, slowly, but surely increasing her power once more.

Tortles: 666 years after the Catastrophe, Dendar the Night Serpent was released by the Yuan-Ti inhabitants of Tor-eal, who immediately devoured the Yuan-Ti, many Chultans, and the island known as the Snout of Omgar, which was the homeland of the Tortles. Many Tortles perished during this event, and they suffered greatly in the following days as Chult was ravaged by the serpent primordial for multiple days, which was the location that had the second biggest population of Tortles, which caused even more deaths among their species.

At this point, the Tortles were restricted in places they could go. They didn't want to dwell on the mainland near other races, as they were suspicious of the more monstrous races, as is understandable if your home was just destroyed by the actions of a species of snake people. The oceans were controlled by the Aboleths and Krakens, and were not safe. They decided to start dwelling in lakes, only surfacing when they needed air or food. They used rivers as "roads" to transport them as they need for travel. Over the course of the centuries, they gained the ability to breath water, swim better, and developed underwater cities in lakes, and literally transformed rivers into roads that they could use to transport goods with carts pulled by large fish. Here are their new racial statistics.

Tieflings: Due to their infernal nature, tieflings faced major discrimination shortly after the Catastrophe. Many of them were wrongfully blamed for causing or allowing the events that took place to take place, but the fault was not on them. Even some types of celestials either placed the blame on these tieflings, or didn't speak out when tieflings were discriminated. The main type of people who did not reject the tieflings were orcs, half-orcs, dwarves, and coatls. Throughout many centuries of getting closer to these people, tieflings eventually bred with coatls, causing their physical appearance and statistics to change.

Now, their became only two types of tieflings, one known as the Holyscales, and the others known as the Brightwings. Their horns and tails no longer were fiendish, but instead became scaled. Tieflings stopped being fiendish colors, instead becoming white, gold, yellow, green, orange, turquoise, or a mix of two or more colors. Their legs were also scaled, and the Brightwings had rainbow-colored feathery wings, like a coatl's. The Holyscales often have glimmering scales, often of the lighter colors, and they have the ability to sense evil and good creatures, detect thoughts, and call holy fire.

They now have a culture of right-doers, priests, and justice-bringers. Often becoming judges, clerics, and servants to the celestials, these tieflings are found scattered across the world, even in gnoll cities, or orc camps. They now also try to fight evil whenever it surfaces, also often capable of rallying people to their aid in these holy tasks.

Edit: Here's the tiefling race