Touch attack for Evard's Black Tentacles?

[apesamongus]

I cast Flaming Sphere, and direct it into an orc's square. The orc fails his Reflex save, and takes damage. I get distracted and do something else for the enxt five rounds; the orc chooses to remain in his square. He does not need to make any more saves, and takes no more damage.

Well, I'll be damned. We ran that one really wrong. No wonder it was the spell of choice for 4 levels.

 

[apesamongus]

Why are we "assuming" it is that way? Do you honestly dispute that is explicitly what the text of the spell says? If you don't dispute that, then why do you need to "assume" it?

I would dispute that because "being in the area" is a condition, not an event. Something needs to happen to be a trigger. "Being blue" cannot be a trigger. "Being blue when moving more than 5' in one turn" could be. "Being in the area of the spell" cannot trigger anything, because there is no event that happens to be the trigger. "Being in the area of the spell at the beginning of your turn" or "being in the area of the spell when it is cast" or being in the area of the spell on the caster's turn" or even "being in the area of the spell of 1 full round" would all be valid triggers. A state or condition cannot be a trigger, because there is no time at which it can be said to happen.

 

[Ninja-to]

Read the spell description.

The only time Flaming Sphere deals damage is when the caster uses a Move action to direct the sphere into another creature's square - the sphere stops moving for the round and deals damage on a failed Reflex save.

If the caster doesn't direct the sphere to move into a creature's square, this condition is not fulfilled, and therefore no damage is dealt.

-Hyp.

But if the sphere is already in the creature's square, then isn't the condition continuously fulfiled until the creature moves out of that space?

If your answer is 'no' as I think it will be, then does that mean the sphere needs to be moved out of the square, then back in again to have a chance to do damage? Or does the spehere need to simply move around within the square to attack again? If the latter, then how long would the spellcaster need to concentrate on that? Just as much as needed to move the sphere as a full move action? Seems unlikely.

I agree with Stalker0, semantics can be argued endlessly, but I think common sense needs to overrule missing text or ambiguity, be it 'right' or 'wrong' or 'as written' or not. I've heard you shouldn't mix common sense with D&D too much, but there are instances such as this where it seems rather silly to do otherwise.

 

[KarinsDad]

But if the sphere is already in the creature's square, then isn't the condition continuously fulfiled until the creature moves out of that space?

If your answer is 'no' as I think it will be, then does that mean the sphere needs to be moved out of the square, then back in again to have a chance to do damage? Or does the spehere need to simply move around within the square to attack again? If the latter, then how long would the spellcaster need to concentrate on that? Just as much as needed to move the sphere as a full move action? Seems unlikely.

I agree with Stalker0, semantics can be argued endlessly, but I think common sense needs to overrule missing text or ambiguity, be it 'right' or 'wrong' or 'as written' or not. I've heard you shouldn't mix common sense with D&D too much, but there are instances such as this where it seems rather silly to do otherwise.

I agree.

In our game, we just this weekend created a house rule (based on this thread) that all area affect spells have their effects occur immediately when cast, once per round at the beginning of the caster's turn, and whenever any creature enters the area. In the case of Flaming Sphere, this means that it could potentially attack twice in a round if a creature stayed put in the square it is in on its turn. But usually, it is still once per round (when the caster moves it with a move action).

This, to me, is how the rules on area affect spells with a duration should work anyway.

 

[Nail]

....the sphere needs to be moved out of the square, then back in again to have a chance to do damage?

Yep.

Actually, it works quite well that way. Think of it like this: the Caster needs to use a move action each round in order to do damage. Sounds pretty balanced to me; it's an excellent spell.

"The sphere moves as long as you actively direct it (a move action for you); otherwise, it merely stays at rest and burns."

 

[KarinsDad]

"The sphere moves as long as you actively direct it (a move action for you); otherwise, it merely stays at rest and burns."

Except that if the caster does not move and attack with it, it does not actually burn anything.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Except that if the caster does not move and attack with it, it does not actually burn anything.

Well, the sphere continues burning. It just doesn't do any damage thereby.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But if the sphere is already in the creature's square, then isn't the condition continuously fulfiled until the creature moves out of that space?

No - as soon as it's the caster's turn again, the sphere has not stopped moving for 'the round', because it's a different round to the one in which it stopped moving.

If your answer is 'no' as I think it will be, then does that mean the sphere needs to be moved out of the square, then back in again to have a chance to do damage?

That's certainly how I read it.

If the latter, then how long would the spellcaster need to concentrate on that? Just as much as needed to move the sphere as a full move action? Seems unlikely.

Why? If I move the sphere five feet, it's a move action. If I move the sphere thirty feet, it's a move action.

If a monk with a speed of 90 moves ninety feet, it's a move action. What sort of action does it take him to move ten feet? As much as needed to move nine times as far? Seems unlikely... and yet, to move ten feet requires him to make a move action just the same. (Barring Epic Tumble checks or the Training Dummy of the Master, of course.)

-Hyp.