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Toughness - How many hit points to make it worthwhile?
- Thread starter Roman
- Start date
Toughness: +3 HP, reroll all 1s on HD rolls; and pre-requisite for....
Improved Toughness: +1 HP/level applied retroactively and pre-requisite for....
Greater Toughness: +1 on all Hit Die rolls to the maximum allowed on each die,
also applied retroactively; and +1 to fortitude saves.
Improved Toughness: +1 HP/level applied retroactively and pre-requisite for....
Greater Toughness: +1 on all Hit Die rolls to the maximum allowed on each die,
also applied retroactively; and +1 to fortitude saves.
Machiavelli
First Post
The trouble with retroactive Greater Toughness, Hurloon: who wants to keep track of their HP rolls???
evilbob
Adventurer
For those who think 1 HP/level is too much, all I can say to that is I've had that house rule for years and NO ONE - not once - has ever taken Toughness. I mean, how many people ever DO take toughness? Ultimately, changes to Toughness probably benefit monsters more than players because monsters often dump feats into Toughness, but players pretty much never do, ever. Why gain 3 or even [level] more HP when you can weapon focus or spell focus or tracking or a reserve spell or any of the other 3 billion feats that come out every month?
I think the best way to make people take this feat is if Toughness gave (the ultimately gotten from 1 HP/level anyway) 20 HP at once.
I think the best way to make people take this feat is if Toughness gave (the ultimately gotten from 1 HP/level anyway) 20 HP at once.
Arkhandus
First Post
That all depends on your individual group, I think. I know I actually spend my feats on Toughness, Skill Focus, Alertness, and such. I kinda don't want my mages to die from Random Goblin-Child Thrown Rock #3 That Happened To Crit, or Minor Orc Axe Hit #1 That My Stupid Fighter Companion Didn't Bother Getting In The Way Of, or my rogues to botch a Listen check to avoid being bushwhacked when they're scouting, or what have you....
I've seen players take feats like Toughness and Skill Focus, including myself. Of course they won't bother if you start them out at level 5 or 10 or somesuch, when the benefit is negligable.
Anyway, I've finally pinned down a fair way to handle those feats in Aurelia, so at least in my next campaign, players may seriously consider beefing up their survivability with Toughness or beefing up their skill prowess with Skill Focus. I changed skill focus to not only a +3 bonus, but also 1 free rank, and another free rank at 10th-level. I might add a Greater Skill Focus feat at some point as well....
Though I had already HR'd Toughness to give 4 HP, I decided to add that its effect doubles at 10th-level onward. So if taken at 1st-level, it'll give 'em 4 HP, but then that same feat will improve to 8 HP later on so the PC effectively gains 2 wizardly hit dice in equivalence (or 1 monkish hit die in equivalence). Still available multiple times. So if some human took Toughness twice at 1st, once more at 3rd, 6th, and 9th, they'd end up with 40 extra HP by 10th-level, a huge boost for a mage or rogue type. Not like they don't get a few bonus feats anyway in Aurelia.... And of course there's the other Toughness feats of Aurelia, being Improved, Greater, and Superior, each requiring a few other Toughness feats and giving a bigger boost to HP.
I've seen players take feats like Toughness and Skill Focus, including myself. Of course they won't bother if you start them out at level 5 or 10 or somesuch, when the benefit is negligable.
Anyway, I've finally pinned down a fair way to handle those feats in Aurelia, so at least in my next campaign, players may seriously consider beefing up their survivability with Toughness or beefing up their skill prowess with Skill Focus. I changed skill focus to not only a +3 bonus, but also 1 free rank, and another free rank at 10th-level. I might add a Greater Skill Focus feat at some point as well....
Though I had already HR'd Toughness to give 4 HP, I decided to add that its effect doubles at 10th-level onward. So if taken at 1st-level, it'll give 'em 4 HP, but then that same feat will improve to 8 HP later on so the PC effectively gains 2 wizardly hit dice in equivalence (or 1 monkish hit die in equivalence). Still available multiple times. So if some human took Toughness twice at 1st, once more at 3rd, 6th, and 9th, they'd end up with 40 extra HP by 10th-level, a huge boost for a mage or rogue type. Not like they don't get a few bonus feats anyway in Aurelia.... And of course there's the other Toughness feats of Aurelia, being Improved, Greater, and Superior, each requiring a few other Toughness feats and giving a bigger boost to HP.
Draxo
First Post
My group just uses improved toughness: 1hp/hd.
It doesnt seem game breaking.. it scales with your level, and just about gives you the ability to take 1 more hit at your level, of a rough encounter of your level. I dont think of your level in hit ponts as gamebreaking in the slightest. Shrinking back when you think 20hp..? just kind of ignores the fact that its 20th level when many monsters of that CR and lower hit for more than that.
It doesnt seem game breaking.. it scales with your level, and just about gives you the ability to take 1 more hit at your level, of a rough encounter of your level. I dont think of your level in hit ponts as gamebreaking in the slightest. Shrinking back when you think 20hp..? just kind of ignores the fact that its 20th level when many monsters of that CR and lower hit for more than that.
