D&D 5E Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards 5e

[Undrhil]

Well, silent image also includes creatures and visible phenomenon. Lots of things make that bar and are silent. Fog, for example, or shadow. Creatures can be done and seen at a distance and not heard. They have more options for believability, and thus less likely to be investigated.

And, truthfully, there are very very few monsters that have good investigation skills.

I think the best use of Minor Illusion is to pop up a rock in front of yourself and shoot through it. If you are in a natural environment, the enemy shouldn't automatically figure out that the rock is an illusion since it's very possible for a rock to actually be there. And, to that matter, why do the bad guys automatically figure out it's an illusion? This is a Wizard they are fighting against; he can surely summon actual rocks, as far as the enemy is concerned. They need to *always* have that investigation or go physically put their hands on it to determine it's an illusion, otherwise, you are ruining the utility of the spell. Remember: the Wizard spent an action to cast that cantrip, which he could have used to cast Firebolt. So, I think it's fair that the enemy has to spend an action to determine it's not real (or they have to go physically grab the wizard through the illusion, which is another can of worms altogether!)

 

[purplerook]

I think the best use of Minor Illusion is to pop up a rock in front of yourself and shoot through it. ...

The open question here is what happens after the wizard shoots through the rock. Does the creature realized it is an illusion, because the wizard shot through it? Does the creature spend his round on the Int check or simply shoot an arrow at the rock - and the wizard behind it? Also, what happens when the wizard casts another illusion of a rock? This is all subject to DMs interpretation and goes to how powerful MI is. on one extreme you get one or more creatures wasting their round with an active Investigation to Advantage/Disadvantage to no effect (creature uses their interact with object to physically interact at a distance with the object).

Some of this is interpretation of the rules and some of this is game balance. Right now, I am glad that I am the player that gets to see how the spell works, rather then the GM that needs to figure out how to interpret the rules in such a way that the spell is useful, but not overpowered.

 

[Undrhil]

The open question here is what happens after the wizard shoots through the rock. Does the creature realized it is an illusion, because the wizard shot through it? Does the creature spend his round on the Int check or simply shoot an arrow at the rock - and the wizard behind it? Also, what happens when the wizard casts another illusion of a rock? This is all subject to DMs interpretation and goes to how powerful MI is. on one extreme you get one or more creatures wasting their round with an active Investigation to Advantage/Disadvantage to no effect (creature uses their interact with object to physically interact at a distance with the object).

Some of this is interpretation of the rules and some of this is game balance. Right now, I am glad that I am the player that gets to see how the spell works, rather then the GM that needs to figure out how to interpret the rules in such a way that the spell is useful, but not overpowered.

Right. One or more creatures investigates it to determine it's an illusion, which is fine! That's the spells intended purpose.

 

[bid]

And, to that matter, why do the bad guys automatically figure out it's an illusion? This is a Wizard they are fighting against; he can surely summon actual rocks, as far as the enemy is concerned. They need to *always* have that investigation or go physically put their hands on it to determine it's an illusion, otherwise, you are ruining the utility of the spell.

"I shoot at the wizard through the rock" seems good enough an investigation. This is why it's only good once.

 

[raleel]

The open question here is what happens after the wizard shoots through the rock. Does the creature realized it is an illusion, because the wizard shot through it? Does the creature spend his round on the Int check or simply shoot an arrow at the rock - and the wizard behind it? Also, what happens when the wizard casts another illusion of a rock? This is all subject to DMs interpretation and goes to how powerful MI is. on one extreme you get one or more creatures wasting their round with an active Investigation to Advantage/Disadvantage to no effect (creature uses their interact with object to physically interact at a distance with the object).

Some of this is interpretation of the rules and some of this is game balance. Right now, I am glad that I am the player that gets to see how the spell works, rather then the GM that needs to figure out how to interpret the rules in such a way that the spell is useful, but not overpowered.

From a GM perspective, I would try to look at other spells of the equivalent level. Granting advantage or disadvantage with a cantrip for a single roll is within the realm of possibility, as there are those spells that do it, or get very close. So that seems like something that can be done.

What happens after? Well, he sees a rock shooting a fire bolt. Yes, wizards can summon rocks, but it's probably outside of his experience to have rocks shooting fire bolts. That and it's a threat. So he takes a shot at the wizard or rock (whichever he can see). The rock provides a bonus there... let's call it disadvantage. If he misses, we hand wave it to be that the rock was hit, and it promptly disappears (interacted with). If he hits the wizard, he still has a rock there.

Let's say he hits the rock and it goes away. Now the adversary (let's say it's an orc) knows that rock was an illusion, because it disappears. I probably would give him a roll on the next casting of minor illusion for free - a sort of "heeeeey, this wizard uses illusions!" Realization. If he failed, I'd go back to the top ther and he shoots the rock again. Then the wizard tries again, this time I would give the odd advantange on his "goddamn, you are fooling me" roll.

Really, I view it as a very flexible spell that can do cantrip level things, but it can't keep doing the same thing over and over to people who have interacted with that wizard and that sort of object before. Compare this to true strike, which also grants advantage on an attack roll. Only you can do it every time you cast, instead of it failing after a few times.

 

[Mistwell]

You create an illusion of fog. Now, there's no issue with something coming out of it and hitting you. But you still cannot see your target.

 

[purplerook]

You create an illusion of fog. Now, there's no issue with something coming out of it and hitting you. But you still cannot see your target.

Darkness or Fog was my initial thought, but [MENTION=21664]raleel[/MENTION] pointed out that Minor Illusion say 'objects', not 'objects or effects'. So, MI requires an object - you can argue with the GM about wether a 'cube of fog' is an object or an effect.


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[Leatherhead]

A smoke bomb is an object.

Or you could simply create a bush. And shoot around it.

Seriously, it's a stationary point that grants partial cover. That's +2 ac against ranged attacks and the opportunity to use the hide skill. I know people hate the stealth rules but letting an illusionist trick people with a cantrip is hardly game breaking

 

[Eltab]

I think the best use of Minor Illusion is to pop up a rock in front of yourself and shoot through it.

[begin: tone of voice]

Oh good heavens, think like a Wizard, not a Barbarian!

Minor Illusion: I create a boulder right in front of me. The boulder is shoulder-high but fills my square left-to-right (as seen from the enemy).
I shoot my bow over the top of the boulder.
Then I duck behind the boulder (and maybe try to Hide, if I have any actions left).

The enemy doesn't know the boulder is an illusion, because I haven't advertised to him that it is !

[end: disapproving instructor's scolding tone of voice ]

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Darkness or Fog was my initial thought, but @raleel pointed out that Minor Illusion say 'objects', not 'objects or effects'. So, MI requires an object - you can argue with the GM about wether a 'cube of fog' is an object or an effect.

I never understood why this argument over fog has to happen. A hedge is an object, blocks vision, and can plausibly emit arrows without straining plausibility. In fact, one of my biggest reasons for house-ruling away advantage on ranged attacks for being unseen is because actual, non-illusionary bushes were implausibly useful to archers. Now I only grant advantage to unseen melee attackers.

Object lesson: this squirrel hedge is an object that blocks vision but not arrows.