Trimming the Fat: Three Ability Scores

[Alnag]

I've already write in thread balance vs. diversity, that those six scores are not needed anymore. And I still think it is true...

 

[Steely Dan]

(Dex or Int for Reflex and AC

Can you choose to apply Int instead of Dex to AC, not just Ref?

 

[Falling Icicle]

Can you choose to apply Int instead of Dex to AC, not just Ref?

Yes...

 

[arscott]

Personally, i think it's INTENDED that there are some "dump" stats. It's not a bad thing to have a dumb fighter, or a frail wizard, or an ugly ranger. It helps differentiate characters in the party a bit. In my mind, all they really need to avoid is having any stat be useless for MOST classes, so you end up with 3e-like parties where everybody (except maybe the sorcerer) is freakishly ugly.

My sentiments exactly (with a minor nitpick about charisma not simply being a representation of physical attractiveness).

I would like for characters to be able to be stupid, or clumsy, or foolish, and yet still be good at their jobs. In 3e, bad stats hurt too much, to the extent that few people are willing to put less than a 10 in any stat except Charisma.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Wait you want Charisma to only represent physical attractiveness?!?!

 

[Steely Dan]

Yes...

Thanks, and Is your AC equal to your Ref + armour/shields?

 

[Falling Icicle]

Thanks, and Is your AC equal to your Ref + armour/shields?

Seems that way. Though if you wear heavy armor you don't get your Ref/Int bonus. Considering how all attribute mods (and thus AC) scale at +1/2 levels, heavy armor is going to have to be pretty impressive to justify giving up the attribute bonus.

 

[small pumpkin man]

Thanks, and Is your AC equal to your Ref + armour/shields?

In light armour, yes, in heavy armour you don't get your stat.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

4 scores proposal

I like the idea of 4 scores:

Toughness: Str & Con (so highly correlated in 3e anyway)
Agility: Dex
Insight: Int & "wise" part of Wis
Aura: Cha & "spirit/will" part of Wis

Melee and ranged attacks both use Dex to hit. Dex also affects initiative, Reflex, AC, and many skills, so it has plenty going for it alone.

Toughness gets the impact of both Str and Con but does not affect to hit, only damage, for melee attacks. Also for hp and Fort, and the few Str/Con skills

Aura is for character interaction stuff and Will defense, which is is used to resist things like Charm and Domination...stuff that attacks your soul/spirit/willpower, but is NOT used for seeing through illusions, noticing things, or avoiding being fooled. You can be a simpleton but of strong resolve and be hard to sway from your purpose even though easy to trick

Insight is used for everything Int is and a related new defense score, maybe called Perception, used for the same thing those new passive skills are used for (they function just like defenses anyway) along with being defense against illusions or anything involved in trickery rather than subversion of will, so the shrewdness or "aware" aspect of old Wis.

Aura is the mental/spiritual analog of physical Toughness, while Insight is the mental analog of physical Agility. So a nice sort of symmetry there.

The classic 4 classes/roles now each correspond to one ability.

Fighter/Defender: Toughness
Cleric/Leader: Aura
Rogue/Striker: Agility
Wizard/Controller: Insight

Not sure I would actually use this because I don't know if it's worth the effort of dealing with all the cascading, downstream consequences for the game system, but I've been thinking along these lines since I stopped playing D&D toward the end of last summer. In know it's not 3 scores but it's still a substantial reduction and I think in some ways it may be more elegant if you want to keep to some of the archetypes of the old (and new system). What do you think?

 

[Steely Dan]

In light armour, yes, in heavy armour you don't get your stat.

So in heavy armour your AC is equal to your Ref + armour/shields, but minus the Int or Dex bonus?