D&D 5E Truly Understanding the Martials & Casters discussion (+)

[Aldarc]

If you start a "conversation" then get riled up because people disagree do you really want a conversation or are you seeking validation?

If you start a conversation to dismiss and shut down people's concerns, do you really want a conversation to reach understanding or are you seeking self-validation of your preconceptions?

 

[HammerMan]

If you start a "conversation" then get riled up because people disagree do you really want a conversation or are you seeking validation?

If you start a conversation to dismiss and shut down people's concerns, do you really want a conversation to reach understanding or are you seeking self-validation of your preconceptions?

yeah, we (and I mean me and everyone who argues on these threads) need to listen more and be more kind to each other.

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note:
So, now we are getting into the fingerpointing phase.

This is not constructive. If that's what you're going to do, it is time to leave the discussion.

 

[nevin]

I haven't seen anyone trying to shut it down. It's been goin on for a lot pages as pointed out. There are different opinions here and obviously we aren't all going to agree.

I assume it's not what you mean but Alderac but your post reads like you believe anyone who disagrees or pushes back is dismissive.

If like

 

[DND_Reborn]

Savant type Int based class, definitely, and maybe some kind of Cha-based Envoy or Diplomat class could fit. Much like Fighter eats up too much space as "generic master of combat", Rogue eats up too much space as "master of all skills"; both classes could stand to see part of their niches cannibalized for more specific implementations.

I think some form of Diplomat and an Expert (Savant) would be good. I liked the class in d20 SW. I agree about the Rogue covering too much ground.

 

[Mort]

I think some form of Diplomat and an Expert (Savant) would be good. I liked the class in d20 SW. I agree about the Rogue covering too much ground.

Honestly, I'm generally for less classes covering more ground.

The palladium RIFTS system burned me out on having a million different classes. Most of them end up overlapping and when you have SO many - they can't help but have ones that are just significantly better than others.

Now I'm all for classes - never actually been a fan of pure skill systems - but too narrow (lots and lots of classes) has its own big problems.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I think the word "appease" is our own addition, and so introduces connotations that may not reflect reality.

This is a problem with giving precis of what people have said - word choice matters, and can give slant to interpretation.

But does it really not reflect reality?

A ton of design choices were expressly to attract specific demographics and deflect certain criticisms and a lot of design evaporated in the playtest, which was selective of those self-same demographics.

 

[HammerMan]

Honestly, I'm generally for less classes covering more ground.

The palladium RIFTS system burned me out on having a million different classes. Most of them end up overlapping and when you have SO many - they can't help but have ones that are just significantly better than others.

Now I'm all for classes - never actually been a fan of pure skill systems - but too narrow (lots and lots of classes) has its own big problems.

funny thing... rifts might (maybe) in the early 90s have competed with 2e. it did petter out... but somehow it IS still going. like I don't know the numbers but they must be making profits to keep going. they predated white wolf and out lived white wolf... so they are doing something kinda right (and a lot wrong)

 

[Minigiant]

I've never thought D&D is the game that let's you play as the Hulk or Captain America, I'd look for a marvel TTRPG for that. I just want D&D to focus on its niche and I think that it works best there but the focus on hyper-story utility feels like it will further distance itself away from the Dungeon crawl aspect.

I hoping more for Hercules, Achilles, Witchers, Grey Wardens, cursed children, and special bloodlines.

But there is only so many dungeons you can justify.

And what is the point of flying monsters who can't fly?

 

[Mort]

funny thing... rifts might (maybe) in the early 90s have competed with 2e. it did petter out... but somehow it IS still going. like I don't know the numbers but they must be making profits to keep going. they predated white wolf and out lived white wolf... so they are doing something kinda right (and a lot wrong)

Probably topic for another thread:

They had a very well funded kickstarter years agao (2013) that made almost 1.5 million. They then only delivered on about half of what was promised but didn't offer refunds.

before that the CEO claimed he had been robbed of "very personal items..." and begged fans for money - which he got a ton of.

But on a better note. They made some deal with Savage Worlds and have seen several Savage Rifts supplements out, which actually aren't too bad. That's likely keeping them afloat.