Two New Language-Related Feats

[haiiro]

I haven't found any feats that allow characters to learn additional languages, so I decided to try my hand at creating a couple. Here they are:

Linguist [General]

You have mastered the art of learning new languages.
Benefit: Speak Language becomes a class skill for you, and you learn two additional languages. Excusive languages are prohibited (such as Druidic).
Special: These new languages do not count as ranks of the Speak Language skill.

Well-Travelled

You have picked up a number of languages during your travels.
Benefit: You learn three additional languages. Exclusive languages are prohibited (such as Druidic).
Special: These new languages do not count as ranks of the Speak Language skill.

Both are based on the principle that a language is no more powerful in game terms than a skill check bonus -- so Linguist mirrors Cosmopolitan (from the FRCS), and Well-Travelled mirrors the fixed (+3) Skill Focus. I specified that the new languages do not count as ranks of Speak Language because 1) no feat should give skill ranks, IMO, and 2) if a PrC requires X number of ranks of SL, these feats should not make it possible to qualify for that PrC too early.

I think languages are often underused in games (particularly given the availability of spells such as comprehend languages and tongues), and I wanted to address this in a fairly straightforward manner. Both grew out of a character concept I had that proved unworkable because of the fact that Speak Language is unaffected by check bonuses -- and therefore by feats that provide check bonuses.

What do you think of these two feats?

(Also: do you like the name "Well-Travelled?" I'm not sure it feels quite right, but I couldn't think of anything better.)

Edit: typo.

 

[haiiro]

I wanted to give this at least 24 hours before I bumped it, but I'm really curious to see what others think of these two feats. I haven't played around with languages much in 3e, so I'm not sure that equating them with skill check bonuses is the right approach -- do you have any thoughts on that?

 

[Quip]

They look fine to me, personally I'd allow the normal feats to work that way regardless. But the wording can be interpreted either way, so these are good to have.

I'd drop the restriction on requirements, just let it count normally. Using a feat is a lot more expensive than a few skill ranks, there's no reason to penalize its use. Speak language has no "rank limit", a first level barbarian with four skill points per level can know eight languages.

Its hard to name that anything else, Worldly maybe? Cosmopolitan fits, but thats taken.

 

[haiiro]

I'd drop the restriction on requirements, just let it count normally. Using a feat is a lot more expensive than a few skill ranks, there's no reason to penalize its use. Speak language has no "rank limit", a first level barbarian with four skill points per level can know eight languages.

I'm not sure what you mean by "work normally" -- feats like Skill Focus don't provide ranks either (just bonuses), so it's not really a restriction for the language feats to also not provide ranks. Because Speak Language is a quirky skill (more of a non-skill, I suppose), I thought it made sense to clarify the issue of ranks.

I thought SL worked the same way as any other skill in terms of buying ranks, rank limits and cross-class restrictions. Where is it described as not having rank limits?

Its hard to name that anything else, Worldly maybe? Cosmopolitan fits, but thats taken.

I like Worldly too, but I've already got a feat by that name (which is in this thread: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44759), a skill bonus feat.

 

[Quip]

Oh... duh. Hahah I think I should stop posting at 2 am.

By "work normally" I meant give an equivalent bonus, three points to three languages. Maybe that wasn't the best way to put it, but see above excuse.

I dont remember where that came up, I think on the rules forum a week or so ago. I dont think its ever stated in the rules explicitly. But if it doesn't have ranks, how can it be limited? Also, you get a certain number of extra languages at 1st level depending on your race and intelligence, you could break the "rank limit" without ever spending a point.

It could go either way I suppose, depending on how you want to look at it. But the general agreement is that there's no limit, mostly because it wouldn't really matter.

 

[der_kluge]

The way I see it, languages in d20 are broken. I can spend one rank in a language, and speak it fluently. In my house rules, I made languages skills that have ranks, like any other skill.

Languages that are you are fluent in, as per your race and/or class, you start with 10 ranks in. If you have 20 ranks in a language, you are basically a poet laureate in that language. 5 ranks in a language allows you to utter simple common phrases.

Comprehend languages add +10 ranks to the chosen language. And Tongues adds +10 ranks to all languages for its duration.

I have some other rules on languages, but I'd have to dig them up. I can if you're interested.

 

[Saeviomagy]

So in other words, in your campaign, noone ever spends ranks in languages, because quite frankly, the already highly attractive option of just using tongues and comprehend languages becomes even more attractive when compared with losing some 10 skill points per language.

 

[haiiro]

Quip: I see where you're coming from in terms of SL having no ranks or rank cap, and you're right -- it probably wouldn't make much of a difference overall.

die_kluge: your language system is a lot more realistic in some respects, but I can't see very many PCs investing that many skill points in languages. I think the high level of abstraction in D&D's approach to languages fits the system well -- it's not like Call of Cthulhu (BRP), where an extra few percentiles in Latin can mean the difference between comprehending a sanity-blasting tome and just wasting your time.

With so many other things to spend skill points on (and how few of them most classes get), I tend to agree with Saeviomagy on this one.

 

[Hashmalum]

I like the Linguist feat, but that might have something to do with the fact that I made a feat that does exactly the same thing and has the same name. Well-Traveled seems kind of unnecessary, though. You get the same benefit for taking Linguist and spending one skill point, plus you get the class skill benefit. And who can't spare a single measly skill point?

 

[der_kluge]

IMC, language plays an important part. PCs are at the bottom of a dungeon, some ancient runes adorn the wall. Can the PCs decipher it before the walls crush them?

To make up for the skill point cost, I've increased the number of skill points that each class gets. Some classes, like Druid, get languages per their class. So, Druids get Druidic as a language, which I made the same as the Fey language. So, they get 10 ranks in that language as per their class. Everyone starts out with 10 ranks in common. Well, here are the rules from my House Rules:

 Languages are a separate skill. So, you could have 5 ranks in Elven. When you speak with an Elf, you will be forced to make an “Elven” skill check. If you botch it, you might inadvertently tell the Elven prince that his shoes taste like water, instead of asking for safe passage through his land.
 Each character starts with 10 ranks in Common.
 Druids get +1 free ranks in Druidic (Fey) every level starting at 1st.
 Rogues get +1 free ranks in “Thieves Cant” every level starting at 1st.
 Barbarians have 10 ranks in Common, but can only speak it. Reading/writing common is a separate skill, which they can put points into if they desire to.
 Clerics gain +1 ranks each level in the following languages: Celestial, Abyssal, and Infernal. This includes read/write as well as speaking.
 Paladins gain +1 ranks in Celestial each level.

 Comprehend Languages – This skill adds +10 to the language skill check for one language for the duration of the casting time. So, if you encounter an Elf, and a Halfling in a cage, and each only speaks Elven and Halfling, you’d need to cast the spell two times in order to be able to understand them. And even then, you have to make a skill check (with a +10) in order to decipher what they are saying. The same applies to their written language. There are some languages that this spell will not confer.
 Tongues – this spell adds +10 to your language checks for both speaking and deciphering the language of another creature. In addition, multiple languages are granted for a single casting. So, in the above example, you could speak to both the elf and the halfling without casting an additional spell.

It just makes it all the more realistic, IMHO.