Two swift actions in one round

[Vrecknidj]

Yep. Something like that. Problem is, I'm sure it's just as defeatable as any other system that gets dreamed up.

Stupid players, always finding problems with things.



Dave

 

[Dimwhit]

Mistwell, just tell your DM that you're casting the spell in slow motion, so it's going to take a move action instead of a swift action.

Honestly, there's just no logical reason not to let someone cast a spell more slowly.

 

[Artoomis]

Mistwell, just tell your DM that you're casting the spell in slow motion, so it's going to take a move action instead of a swift action.

Honestly, there's just no logical reason not to let someone cast a spell more slowly.

Except I would never, ever allow a normally Swift action to be taken instaed of a Move Action. That way lies abuse in creating a trivially easy opportunity for a third action (be it a spell or other action).

To use up a Standard Action is no big deal. To use up only a Move Action would be very, very bad. You would NOT want to face bad guys who could do Quicken spells "at will." Suddenly they would do two of these plus a standard action every round - very deadly.

There are plenty of monsters that get a "quickened" spell or spell-like ability at will. I, for one, would NOT want them to get another opportunity for a free shot at the group.

 

[Mistwell]

Except I would never, ever allow a normally Swift action to be taken instaed of a Move Action. That way lies abuse in creating a trivially easy opportunity for a third action (be it a spell or other action).

This holds for three spells in a round...but for everything? Even the example I gave? Seems overly harsh to me.

I have a hard time seeing how using a badge of courage (normally a swift action), the inspirational boost spell (normally a swift action), and the inspire courage ability (a standard action) all in the same round would be abusive.

 

[Darklone]

This holds for three spells in a round...but for everything? Even the example I gave? Seems overly harsh to me.

I have a hard time seeing how using a badge of courage (normally a swift action), the inspirational boost spell (normally a swift action), and the inspire courage ability (a standard action) all in the same round would be abusive.

This example wouldn't be too bad... though I see some "Corebooks only, Dude"-DMs out there scream at the thought of having a level 3 or 4 char (assuming normal char wealth) adding a +3 bonus to hit and to damage of the whole group in one round. For normal groups, that wouldn't be bad, but allowing it in my 10 PC group with 28 point buy chars would be horribly abusive. It's even a bit strong using these buffs in two rounds. A BIG bit.

Looking at other examples: A wizard might use it to dish out three quickened spells per round... e.g. 2 quickened magic missiles and one normal spell. Would be ok IMHO, balanced by the +4 spell level of Quicken.

I don't have examples that seem to be broken, but I would still stick with the two spells per round limit due to a bad gut feeling while tinkering too much with some very basic D&D mechanisms.

 

[Jhaelen]

Nobody is talking about two swift actions in a round, or turning a standard action into a swift action, or an immediate action and a swift action.

We are talking about taking LONGER to do a swift action. So turning a swift action into a move action or standard action.

I don't get it. I thought what you were trying to do was to give up a standard action to get another swift action?
What's the difference between this and 'extending a swift action to take as long as a standard action'?
The net effect of both is you'll be using two swift actions and a move action in a round?!

 

[Artoomis]

I don't get it. I thought what you were trying to do was to give up a standard action to get another swift action?
What's the difference between this and 'extending a swift action to take as long as a standard action'?
The net effect of both is you'll be using two swift actions and a move action in a round?!

While the net effect is to get two actions that are normally "swift" - if you get two "Swift Actions" than you get all the benefits of a Swift Action (like no AoO) as opposed to simply taking a normal Standard Action to do what would otherwsie be a Swift Action - no Swift Action goodness, you just get to do the action.

 

[Artoomis]

This holds for three spells in a round...but for everything? Even the example I gave? Seems overly harsh to me.

I have a hard time seeing how using a badge of courage (normally a swift action), the inspirational boost spell (normally a swift action), and the inspire courage ability (a standard action) all in the same round would be abusive.

Well, for starters how do you decide which actions can be done as a Move Action and which only as a Standard Action? This could be an administrative nightmare for a DM.

What you really want is a new category of actions. (Standard or Swift) and (Move or Swift); with the first being able to be done as a Standard Action and the second as a Move Action.

I do not think this is a good idea. Frankly, the game gets more deadly with every added action in a round, and that makes it harder and harder to counter those actions. This may seem like good thing for PCs, but bad guys get to do all this, too.

Allowing a Swift (or Immediate) Action to be slowed down into a Standard Action makes logical sense and adds no extra actions in a round, so should be accetable.

Allowing a Swift (or Immediate) Action to be slowed down into a Move Action makes logical sense but adds an extra action in a round, so should be allowed only with extreme caution.

I would not do it at all. Too easy to abuse.

Even with want you want to do here - would you want to face a party that all had an extra +1 to hit and +1 damage on top of everthing else and with no cost in terms of lost actions?

Always rememebr that what is good for the goose is good for the gander!

 

[Mistwell]

Well, for starters how do you decide which actions can be done as a Move Action and which only as a Standard Action? This could be an administrative nightmare for a DM.

I think you are exaggerating. So far, it's been difficult for anyone to come up with anything that would be overpowered for this. The default seems to be allow it, only in the rare case where it seems to powerful. You decide the same way you decide on anything being too powerful on rare occasion. Nor would it be a common thing. Only things that become common are administrative nightmares. And it doesn't even require anything being written down. I just don't understand the description "administrative nightmare" for this sort of thing.

What you really want is a new category of actions. (Standard or Swift) and (Move or Swift); with the first being able to be done as a Standard Action and the second as a Move Action.

I do not think this is a good idea. Frankly, the game gets more deadly with every added action in a round, and that makes it harder and harder to counter those actions. This may seem like good thing for PCs, but bad guys get to do all this, too.

Allowing a Swift (or Immediate) Action to be slowed down into a Standard Action makes logical sense and adds no extra actions in a round, so should be accetable.

Allowing a Swift (or Immediate) Action to be slowed down into a Move Action makes logical sense but adds an extra action in a round, so should be allowed only with extreme caution.

It does not add an extra action into a round. You always had that action. It's one swift, one move, and one standard. Same number of actions.

I would not do it at all. Too easy to abuse.

Third time someone has said this...and yet nobody, including you, has come up with a single example of abuse. SHOW ME, if it's so obvious and so easy to abuse.

Even with want you want to do here - would you want to face a party that all had an extra +1 to hit and +1 damage on top of everthing else and with no cost in terms of lost actions?

If you allow the item and the spell, you already will be facing that. It's just a question of whether or not the bard has to do it before they break open the door to the room or after. It's a BARD for goodness sake. It's powerful, because it's one of the only things they can do effectively.

Always rememebr that what is good for the goose is good for the gander!

I do. If my DM wants to sent a horde of bards after me instead of a horde of demons, bring it on.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Can you name any of the one in twenty cases where a swift action and another one as a standard action would be obviously bad? I cannot. In fact, one could add a metamagic enhancement to a swift spell to increase it's casting time and do it that way, right?

Wraithstrike (swift action) + Shadow Blink (standard action to swift action) + Shadow Pounce (full attack against adjacent foe when you teleport next to them) + Shadow Jaunt (move action) + Shadow Pounce again