Two-Weapon Fighting

[Kraedin]

I'm strongly considering replacing Ambidexterity, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, Multidexterity, Multiweapon Fighting, Improved Multiweapon Fighting, Greater Multiweapon Fighting, and Perfect Multiweapon fighting with the following feat:

Multiple Weapon Fighting [General] [Fighter]
You are proficient in fighting with multiple weapons.
Prerequisites: Dexterity 15+
Benefit: When fighting with more than one weapon, you can make a number of additional attacks with your off-hand weapon equal to the number of attacks you could normally make with your primary weapon, at the same attack bonuses. You take a -4 penalty on all weapon attacks when you use this feat, or a -2 penalty if your off-hand weapon is light.
Normal: You cannot use an off-hand weapon to make extra attacks.
Special: For each additional weapon used, increase the number of attacks by the number of attacks you could normally make. For example, a 20th level fighter with 4 weapons (one in each hand) could attack 16 times per round.

Does that seem horribly overpowered? Will I see a flood of TWF in my games? Or does this just bring it in line with THW fighting?

 

[thullgrim]

I really don't know about balance right now, but it sure simplifies things...alot

 

[thullgrim]

on second thought, it makes fighters alot better, makes good TWF paladins easier to do, also makes it more attractive to rogues I would think...

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Special: For each additional weapon used, increase the number of attacks by the number of attacks you could normally make. For example, a 20th level fighter with 4 weapons could attack 16 times per round.

Do you mean the character would need 4 arms or just 4 weapons on them?

It is a bit confusing, but I suspect you mean the former.

SD

 

[DanMcS]

You want to replace all those feats with one feat, and you wonder if it's overpowered for a feat?

Yes, horribly overpowered, and also wrong. The 'normal' section is incorrect, you can usually use an extra weapon but get more severe penalties when doing so.

You might look at the d20 modern two-weapon fighting feat; d20 modern combines two-weapon fighting and ambidexterity into one feat, and then leaves the rest of the chain pretty much alone.

 

[Xeriar]

Heh, and here I am making two-weapon fighting a prerequisite for three-weapon fighting, and that a prereq for 'multiweapon' fighting...

 

[Kraedin]

The 'normal' section is incorrect, you can usually use an extra weapon but get more severe penalties when doing so.

Sorry, I was inadequately clear. The "normal" section is also a change from the core rules.

You want to replace all those feats with one feat, and you wonder if it's overpowered for a feat?

Yes. A character with all of those feats being replaced, is, in general, worse than a character that just uses a greatsword. (Except in cases such as the rogue, with large extra damage bonuses.) By replacing all 5 TWF feats with a single feat, I hope to make this inferior style less costly. After all, paying 5 feats to be worse seems a little off.

You might look at the d20 modern two-weapon fighting feat; d20 modern combines two-weapon fighting and ambidexterity into one feat, and then leaves the rest of the chain pretty much alone.

That was actually my inspiration. I simply didn't think they went far enough.

 

[Datt]

I don't like that idea. It doesn't give any flavor to the fighter that did spend all 5 feats. I play a duel battle axe weilding dwarf. The one thing that I look forward to when I level is getting the next feat in the chain. If anyone can take 1 feat and fight with both hands equally that wouldn't be much fun. I love the look I get when I say that I have 3 attacks with my main hand and two with my off hand. It throws people off. Not to mention that the Dex requirement is way too low. Perfect Two Weapon Fighting has a prereq of 25. It is an Epic level feat and rightly so. I think that with one feat replacing 5 you are going to have a lot of TWF people in your group. It almost doesn't make sense not to.

 

[Technik4]

I like the idea but think it is overpowered. Oriental Adventures had a similair idea, you could get 2wf for the katana and wakizashi for 1 feat, but it didnt apply to anything else. I would say keep ambidexterity as a feat in and of itself, but power-up the two weapon fighting feat. Perhaps when you qualified you could get up to 2 attack with your off-hand, then you need the epic feat to get 2 more?

The reason I say leave ambidexterity alone is because it is a concept in and of itself. It is a requirement for the duelist so it shows he has balance, but he does not need 2wf. Also, if you have fire-arms, you obviously need a twrf which is different from a 2wf feat.

Another idea is to go the route Oriental Adventures did. Allow a feat which considers you to have 2wf and ambidexterity with one feat, but you must pick 2 weapons for it to apply to. Then say that twf gives up to 2 attacks.

So for 1 feat you get:
Ambi, 2wf (2 attacks worth) with only 2 specific weapons. Just as a note, that is essentially 3 feats by the book, but I consider it balanced. In fact it seems like the only way to make a fighter or a rogue with 2wf, as of now the only 2wf Ive ever seen have 1 level of ranger. uggh. Perhaps you require Weapon Focus with both weapons to get that feat?

Technik

 

[drdevoid]

TWF and ranged attacks

I'll tell you one thing I think should be changed, the fact that the current TWF (the current PHb version, that is) doesn't reduce the penalty for wielding/throwing a light ranged weapon in the off-hand. I mean they already eschewed the two ranged attacks with the halfling skiprock. Isn't a hand-crossbow a low damage exotic weapon that provokes AoO when being loaded and fired in melee? If I dual wield two of these it's -4 (the penalty for dual wielding two weapons of your size with ambi & twf not the 1 or 2 sizes below for a tiny weapon) to both attacks with ambidexterity but it can't be improved with twf? Lame! I suppose one could go repeater crossbow and then see if the DM will house rule multi-shot into the campaign but that's 4 feats! For four feats you can have a gunslinger style with Improved Init and Quick Draw- making these feats a lot more interesting.