UA Facing?

[MerricB]

So you're saying that a rogue should need only to make a tumble check every round to get their sneak attack damage?

Try this as an experiment. Tape a piece of paper to your buddy's back. Stand in front of him. Tell him to keep you from grabbing it. Try to grab it.

Yes, but we're not 5th level rogues.

Cheers!

 

[TracerBullet42]

So you're saying that a rogue should need only to make a tumble check every round to get their sneak attack damage?

Try this as an experiment. Tape a piece of paper to your buddy's back. Stand in front of him. Tell him to keep you from grabbing it. Try to grab it.

I'm not saying the system is perfect. I'm just saying I think it might make combat more interesting. Then again it might not.

If you'll look at the first post I made, you'll see that I asked if anyone else had used it yet, because this weekend my group will be using it for the first time.

And then people starting asking me how it worked...I'm just a messenger.

If you don't like it, don't use it. I'm still hoping to hear from someone who has used it, to see what they thought of it.

And also, a tumble check every round won't get a rogue his sneak attack damage. The rules state that if a character does not move or only takes a 5' move in a round, that character may make one facing adjustment as a free action at any point in the round. So he could make it when the rogue tumbles...

So tumbling in behind a character will sometimes get you sneak attack damage, but not always...

Back on topic...has anyone used it yet?

 

[TracerBullet42]

Yes, but we're not 5th level rogues.

Cheers!

Well, not all of us, anyway...

That's a good point though...heroes can do much more than you or I. Well, I shouldn't say "you"...maybe you are heroic. But I'm quite certain I am not, despite what my friends might think...

 

[Vaxalon]

My point is that if you make sneak attacks too easy, you make rogues better fighters than fighters are.

It's the major pitfall of most facing systems.

 

[Saeviomagy]

And also, a tumble check every round won't get a rogue his sneak attack damage. The rules state that if a character does not move or only takes a 5' move in a round, that character may make one facing adjustment as a free action at any point in the round. So he could make it when the rogue tumbles...

Ewwww!

So in other words this system not only introduces a mechanic whereby it's incredibly easy to sneak attack, but it also introduces a mechanic that allows a free action at an undetermined point in a round.

The problem? Combat suddenly gets resolved based on how quickly people declare and complete actions - if mr tumbling rogue moves behind me, and immediately sneak attacks, I could miss my chance to turn around, depending on the players I'm with.

Or just as bad, he could move behind me, I could say "I turn around", and then he could move back into my (former) forward arc.

This is very different from readied or delayed actions which have quite specific rules about when they occur (even though those rules are terrible...).

 

[Saeviomagy]

Well, not all of us, anyway...

That's a good point though...heroes can do much more than you or I. Well, I shouldn't say "you"...maybe you are heroic. But I'm quite certain I am not, despite what my friends might think...

You mean like "turn around more than once in 6 seconds". I mean, if the average D&D character can't do that, he's not very heroic, is he?

Besides, there's already a mechanism for distracting a target enough that you get a free shot at his back, it's called bluff and it works just fine...

 

[TracerBullet42]

But has anyone used it yet? We can all speculate...I would like to hear from someone who has used it...

 

[Pielorinho]

Although I like the idea of facing, this doesn't sound like a great solution to me -- turning around once in six seconds is a little silly.

However, when I play in games with rogues, it seems that almost every attack they make is a sneak attack. As long as you've got some minimal coordination in battle, the rogue should have no trouble getting into a flanking position. The only time when the rogue ISN'T SAing in my experience (assuming the target is vulnerable to SAs) is when the enemies are stacked so deep that they can't be flanked, or when the party tank hasn't had time to move into position yet.

Very often, the rogue calls out, "flank!" and delays until an ally gets into position.

I also read a long time ago that rogues were balanced with the assumption that they'd be SAing with a majority of their attacks. They're still not better fighters than fighters, since they have significantly fewer HP, fewer feats, and often worse armor classes.

Daniel

 

[TracerBullet42]

I would also like to remind everyone reading these posts that this is all from what I remember reading...I'm sure there's more...

 

[Pielorinho]

Oops -- Tracerbullet, I did mean to acknowledge that, and to say that I'll reserve judgment on the rules until I read them for myself.

Daniel