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Legend
Mage in dnd tends to specifically refer to those that cast arcane spells, so it kind of does work.And "Expert" somehow isn't? Or "Mage" in a game where most classes can cast spells?
Mage in dnd tends to specifically refer to those that cast arcane spells, so it kind of does work.And "Expert" somehow isn't? Or "Mage" in a game where most classes can cast spells?
There's no reason to think this is true.
We know that the Expert has 1 full caster, 1 half-caster and 1 base non-caster.
What reason is there to think that each of the class groupings has to have the same spellcasting?
Even so, in English, the term "paladin" also specifically means an advocate or champion of any kind of cause.The word Paladin is just as ethnocentric. Monk and Barbarian are possible issues for other reasons, but it doesn't look like WotC's planning on changing any of them.
Even so, in English, the term "paladin" also specifically means an advocate or champion of any kind of cause.
The English word rarely refers to its historical meaning.
"Barbarian" like "savage" is actually problematic if representing a culture. However for D&D a "savage" class that is intentionally animalistic like a werewolf concept seems ok.
"Monk" refers to any kind of monastic community, so is somewhat more multicultural.
Personally, I would rather call the "Monk" base class "Athlete", anyway, to emphasize the unarmed physical feats, and open the base class to more character concepts.
Priest is highly problematic. Like saying "White".Devotee could apply to any class, its too generic.
Priest is fine, it's no worse then the term Cleric itself, in fact it's much more broadly applible to more religions then Cleric or Paladin themselves are and those terms aren't going anywhere.
"Martial Artist" has too many syllables.Athlete, wow, not even Martial Artist?
I like Adept.Athlete, wow, not even Martial Artist?
I know you feel strongly about this, and I respect that, but I just don't see this complaint getting the momentum you would need to actually change WotC's mind.Priest is highly problematic. Like saying "White".
Religion is the most important, most sacred, aspect of any reallife culture.
To violate the religions of other cultures is highly offensive. Nothing is more offensive to a reallife culture.
Priest is wrong.
Is there literature or anything that supports this. I know you said that Islamic imams object to being called priests, but I've literally met dozens and studied Near Eastern Cultures & Civilizations -- this objection never came up. Saying "we're like priests but different" was a rather common way to introduce themselves to outsiders.Priest is highly problematic. Like saying "White".
To offer an analogy to help an other culture to understand is one thing.Is there literature or anything that supports this. I know you said that Islamic imams object to being called priests, but I've literally met dozens and studied Near Eastern Cultures & Civilizations -- this objection never came up. Saying "we're like priests but different" was a rather common way to introduce themselves to outsiders.
Maybe something like "Devout" would fit better? They all seem to have a "devotion" to a something - Cleric to a god, Druid to nature, and Paladin to a cause.
I like your "Devoted" better than my "Devout" suggestion. Devout is an adjective, while Expert, Mage, and Warrior are all nouns.Some one suggested "Devoted" which I think it good.
Priest is highly problematic. Like saying "White".
Religion is the most important, most sacred, aspect of any reallife culture.
To violate the religions of other cultures is highly offensive. Nothing is more offensive to a reallife culture.
Priest is wrong.
Technically they're still around; the Kohanim (that's most commonly 'Cohen' these days in Anglophone countries--it passes by patrilineal descent so, yeah, the 'Hallelujah' singer and Borat are technically priests) had duties in the temple, but it got destroyed. There are a few remaining special rules--if you're Orthodox and you're a Cohen you can't marry a divorced woman, for example, and you're supposed to deliver the 'priestly blessing' where you make the 'shin' letter with your hands (looks just like the Vulcan 'live long and prosper' sign, and in fact that's where Leonard Nimoy, who's Jewish, got it from).WTF?!?! I don't even know where to begin in responding to this. Priests exist in all races and many world religion none of which have EVER objected to D&D using the term Priest, not one religion, domination, sect, etc...
Christians, Wiccans, Hindus, Recreationists, Jews (they used to have Priests, don't anymore), etc..., all have Priests, it's an extreme common religious term that is exclusive to no religion. Show me the outrage over it, besides yourself.
Are those all confirmed officially as having those keywords? Or are you just saying that the paladin is very warriorlike and you would consider him to be both a warrior and a priest?*Will count as Mage as well
**Will count as Warrior as well
&Will have subclasses that counts as Warrior
^Will have subclasses that count as Mage
%Will have subclasses that count as Priest
Priest is used for a whole lot of religions current and past, so it does fit as a general term for a religious class category.I am not a massive fan of ‘priest’ - for me, it’s like calling them rabbis or vicars, because the word is the word for an ordained member in a specific real world religion. I’d prefer a term that relates to faith or devotion that doesn’t invoke either Father Ted or a need to be part of an organised religion. Trouble is, I can’t think of anything I like - devotee? Bit naff. Zealot? Utterly perjorative. Hmmm.
I really wish that had been reversed. Paladins are warriors with some divine ability. Monks are literally part of monasteries, temples and cloisters.According to the playtest document, paladins are priests, and monks are warriors.
Except in BECMI D&D, where 'mystic' meant 'monk'. Or the Dragonlance version of it that was some kind of cleric-spell-casting sorcerer. And druids might not be healers primarily. You can't win.
Seems like there were a lot of fun 4e classes like the warlord and swordmage that fell by the wayside.
Mystic meant psionics in a UA that didn't go anywhere. It means nothing now.
Only in a failed psionic UA did the Mystic mean Psionics. Usually in D&D, the Psion means Psionics.
The Starfinder Mystic (and its subtypes) covers the same thematic ground as psionics, druids, clerics, shamans, and more. It's basically the intuitive, deeper truths of the universe caster that is the counterpart to the intellectual, magic as a form of science caster represented by the Technomancer.
I doubt that they would drop the term "priest" either. But I did offer the term as something that could work for the discussion at hand.
I propose Leader, Striker, Defender, and Controller.
None of this is confirmed. @Minigiant was just speculating.Are those all confirmed officially as having those keywords? Or are you just saying that the paladin is very warriorlike and you would consider him to be both a warrior and a priest?
But they're not like religious monks in the slightest. Paladins are religious. Monks are just Orientalist Martial Artists.I really wish that had been reversed. Paladins are warriors with some divine ability. Monks are literally part of monasteries, temples and cloisters.
That's what I thought. I mean as a DM those added categories make a lot of sense. I certainly won't stop a paladin from getting great weapon fighting just because it's for warriors.None of this is confirmed. @Minigiant was just speculating.
Religious doesn't equal priest, though. Paladins are plate wearing, greatsword using, smiting warriors from heck(hell doesn't feel right).But they're not like religious monks in the slightest. Paladins are religious. Monks are just Orientalist Martial Artists.
Classwise, yes. But in terms of outside of D&D-inspired Fantasy, while a Druid is just a Celtic Cleric, a Paladin is a Knight of Charlemagne and a Monk is a religious ascetic. As you can see, while Paladins would be associated with religion because the Matter of France is very much a religious warrior saga, it's really about Knights, i.e., Warriors, while the term Monk has been misappropriated onto Martial Artists due to the Shaolin Temple.None of this is confirmed. @Minigiant was just speculating.
But they're not like religious monks in the slightest. Paladins are religious. Monks are just Orientalist Martial Artists.