D&D 5E UA Samurai proposal: swap Fighting Spirit and Strength Before Death

Technically, if we're using averages, increasing the die type by one step is a much greater increase than the expanded crit range. *snip* Increasing the die type by one step results in almost triple the per swing benefit of increasing the crit range one step.

Yes. That's why I called it "a lot stronger".
 

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MechaPilot

Explorer
Yes. That's why I called it "a lot stronger".

I just figured I'd supply some math on the issue. I had to work up tables like that in excel because I don't hand out +X weapons or armor but I still wanted to know how things like expanded crit range or higher die type stacked up against a +X modifier to hit and damage.
 


MechaPilot

Explorer
I just couldn't figure out why you qualified your remark with "technically, ...". It sounded like you thought you were contradicting someone.

I could have been more clear. I didn't mean "techincally" in the sense of "however" or as rebuttal. I meant it in the vein of "specifically" or as clarification.
 

cbwjm

Seb-wejem
Thanks. If most people feel like you do, then it's probably a bit too much of a nerf. On the other hand, it sounds like you'd be happy with something about as strong as the Champion's expanded crit range (which is extraordinarily weak). So we could probably replace Fighting Spirit with something like "increase the damage you deal with any non-heavy weapon by one die size, to a maximum of d12". That's a lot stronger than the Champion ability, but still much weaker than the UA Fighting Spirit.

I would definitely be happier with the increased crit chance over strength before death as it is constant ability that affects your combat potential (I mean, sure, it may never come up during a session due to the randomness of dice, but I find that to be part of the fun). The battlemaster is the opposite in that they have a limited use ability that is more reliable. The samurai's Fighting Spirit is similar to the battlemaster in that the player decides when to use the ability.

Your damage die increase I could see as a suitable entry level ability for a subclass, similar to the champion's increased crit chance (in that it is a constant passive ability).
 

An interesting house rule (or campaign-specific rule) could be to grant Strength Before Death to all PCs. This would be most suitable for a campaign which was explicitly "cinematic" and therefore okay with PCs having protagonist abilities just because they are protagonists.
 

MechaPilot

Explorer
An interesting house rule (or campaign-specific rule) could be to grant Strength Before Death to all PCs. This would be most suitable for a campaign which was explicitly "cinematic" and therefore okay with PCs having protagonist abilities just because they are protagonists.

I wouldn't mind just adding that ability to all PCs if they were required to actually die afterward, thus making it an ability to take a final heroic act before dying.
 

I wouldn't mind just adding that ability to all PCs if they were required to actually die afterward, thus making it an ability to take a final heroic act before dying.

I think you're suggesting that the player chooses, upon hitting 0 HP, between "go down fighting! (bonus round)" and "pray for salvation (make death saves)". Is that right? If so, I like it.

But what would you do if the player's actions during the bonus round manage to prevent them from hitting 0 HP, e.g. by exercising Second Wind or starting to Rage? Let it stand per usual Strength Before Death rules?
 

MechaPilot

Explorer
I think you're suggesting that the player chooses, upon hitting 0 HP, between "go down fighting! (bonus round)" and "pray for salvation (make death saves)". Is that right? If so, I like it.

But what would you do if the player's actions during the bonus round manage to prevent them from hitting 0 HP, e.g. by exercising Second Wind or starting to Rage? Let it stand per usual Strength Before Death rules?

No. Outside intervention (say from another party member) would be fine; self-instigated salvation would be right out (otherwise, it takes the bite out of the final heroic act before death). Remember, we're talking about just giving it to PCs in addition to their other stuff. If they were sacrificing something for it, then I wouldn't have a problem with self-salvation.

Maybe we could add it to the Tough feat. That's widely regard as a poor benefit for the cost of a feat. Adding the version that allows self-salvation to the Tough feat wouldn't be a problem in my eyes.
 

Salamandyr

Adventurer
I'm in agreement with both the sentiment that Fighting Spirit is too strong and that Strength before Death is inappropriate for a third level ability.

I don't like tying game mechanics up with cultural artifact ideas--even ones that are supposedly from "popular entertainment". That doesn't work for me.

Honestly the samurai class shores up pretty much every weak point I have in the fighter class...It'd be my go-to subclass if it wasn't tied up with cultural baggage.
 

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