Ulimate Monk Armor....?

[Impeesa]

The rules as I read them are pretty straightforward - regardless of whether the abilities are similar or not, any item that takes up one of your precious slots uses the 1x - 1.5x - 1.5x (etc) price structure. The 'similar abilities' pricing is intended for things like a staff with multiple spells on a similar theme (for example). You could make a buff item like this slotless, in which case the abilities would be considered similar (protection-related), and the pricing would go 1x - .75x - .5x - .5x, or (after applying the x2 slotless modifier) 2x - 1.5x - 1x - 1x.

--Impeesa--

 

[andargor]

Nail's the DM here, so he can do what he wants. But a fair warning: considering different AC bonuses as "similar" opens up possible items like:

Bracers of +1 Armor, +1 Luck, +1 Sacred, +1 Deflection (4000 gp).

Who needs Bracers of Armor +4 then?

Andargor

 

[Thanee]

Bracers of +1 Armor, +1 Luck, +1 Sacred, +1 Deflection (4000 gp).

Shouldn't that be 8,000 gp (1,000 + 2,500 + 2,500 + 2,000)?

Who needs Bracers of Armor +4 then?

Who needs Bracers of Armor +4, anyways? Oh, right, the monk!

Bye
Thanee

 

[andargor]

Shouldn't that be 8,000 gp (1,000 + 2,500 + 2,500 + 2,000)?

Right, my bad.

Still cheaper if you consider the abilities "similar".

Andargor

 

[Nail]

I'll clarify a bit.

Great! And no worries; your post isn't too harsh. Let's hope mine isn't either.

The part that I think is "just plain wrong" is that it seems fairly blatant to me that you're just trying to find a way to skirt around other pricing rules and get something cheaper. ....(snip).... just screams munchkin.

(A bit OT, but worth the response

I disagree with your interpretation. Looking for "something cheaper" screams "intelligent enought to shop around". Quite different! Are you implying a PC should make dumber choices? Of course not.

It's true the rules say that they are only guidelines. I'm down with that. The problem here is that the guidelines seem to tell me that the "Multi-stacking Robe of AC" works just fine. I'd love to see some "guidelines" (a.k.a Rules as Written) that say otherwise. (House rules are an obvious route; let's leave that alone for now, please.)

I don't think monks aren't supposed to be amazingly good melee characters without a lot of effort. ...(snip)...you're best way to stay alive is to use your high speed to get nice and far away from anything that's attacking you.

What? You're kidding, right? (to borrow a recently posted phrase)

Monks aren't meant to go toe-to-toe with anything? Their amazing unarmed fighting style is for....what......show? Really? [/QUOTE]

 

[Nail]

The rules as I read them are pretty straightforward...

That's a pretty creative view! Not correct RAW, but creative! The designers should have consulted you!

 

[dcollins]

Cute! ...but misguided. The point is to make an item that obeys the rules of the game. If you'd like to change the rules - by all means! - the House Rules forum is next door.

This whole discussion actually belongs in House Rules in the first place. If you're making up your own item that's not in the book then that's intrinsically a House Rule. The only thing that allows that is the DMG "Variant: New Magic Items", the details of which are entirely up to the individual DM.

http://superdan.net.home.comcast.net/dndfaq3.html

 

[dcollins]

It's true the rules say that they are only guidelines. I'm down with that. The problem here is that the guidelines seem to tell me that the "Multi-stacking Robe of AC" works just fine. I'd love to see some "guidelines" (a.k.a Rules as Written) that say otherwise. (House rules are an obvious route; let's leave that alone for now, please.)

A common oversight is to ignore the section on "Magic Item Gold Piece Values" for the DM where it says to (1) compare the item to an existing item, and if that fails then (2) turn to the formula guidelines.

Clearly this is an item to give +12 AC to a monk-type character, the same basic idea as bracers of armor +12 in the Epic rules. Therefore that level of protection is valued at 1.44 million gp in the existing rules.

Furthermore it's generally against the spirit of the rules for any item to be lending different types of bonuses to AC. Is there any other item in the core rules that does that? Saying that House-Ruled Variants open the door to things clearly against the spirit of the rules is fairly disingenuous.

But of course if you're the DM you can do anything you want. As DM in my campaign, this item would just give an armor bonus +12 and be worth 1.44 million gp, pretty simple, and looks more in line with stuff in the existing books, which is the the first principle of pricing new items.

 

[Deset Gled]

Looking for "something cheaper" screams "intelligent enought to shop around". Quite different! Are you implying a PC should make dumber choices?

dcollin's post above says most of what I was going to say. There's a fairly notable difference between "something cheaper" and "a million gold cheaper". Even if you use the regular pricing rules for +12 bracers of armor instead of epic rules, it's about "a hundred thousand gold cheaper". I'm implying that players should be honest with themselves and not try and exploit loopholes.

What? You're kidding, right? (to borrow a recently posted phrase)

Monks aren't meant to go toe-to-toe with anything? Their amazing unarmed fighting style is for....what......show? Really?

No, monks aren't meant to go toe-to-toe with pure melee enemies. If you have a monk and pure melee (fighter, barbarian, many monsters) character stand next to each other and just make attack rolls, the monk is going to gets whomped on. Monks have a lower BAB, a hit die that is pathetic, generally lower damage, and (as you seem to be lamenting) a lower AC.

A monk thrives on tactical superiority, resistance to many of the things that can trap down a pure melee fighter (they have higher saves, tumble, spell resistance, etc), and their ability to take out casting classes like no other. It is true that you can make some monks with awesome attacking power or amazing AC, but whenever you want to make a character that specialized, you're going to have to suck it up and sacrifice a lot of feats, possibly class levels, and, of course, gold.

 

[Nail]

There's a fairly notable difference between "something cheaper" and "a million gold cheaper".

True enough. But few people would argue that the proposed Robe is Epic. As many people have said since the beginning of the thread, it's more likely that we would count the magical powers as "different", rather than count the whoile thing as Epic. Epic is waaaaaay off base. (Sorry Dcollins! )

In any case, there's nothing wrong with looking for a "cheaper, better, faster" way. I'm sure you don't disagree. You're just worried about exploiting a loophole; as long as there is, in fact, a loophole, I am worried as well.

No, monks aren't meant to go toe-to-toe with pure melee enemies. .....(snip)...

A monk thrives on tactical superiority, resistance to many of the things that can trap down a pure melee fighter (they have higher saves, tumble, spell resistance, etc), and their ability to take out casting classes like no other.

(OT, I know, but.... )
"Tactical superiority"? As in: "the ability to run away, and let the Fighters deal with it?" How is that "thriving" exactly? ......perhaps if the monk mounted his fists on arrows and used a bow he's be in better shape.....