UMD, Staffs & Caster Level

[Quidam]

Staffs are activated via UMD the same way wands are. Staffs, however, can use the caster level of the user. Is there a caster level resultant from a UMD check, or must one simply use the caster level of the staff itself?

I'm curious to know if staffs are worthwhile for a warlock.

 

[Andras]

IIRC, UMD result-20=Effective Caster Level

 

[Bad Paper]

IIRC, UMD result-20=Effective Caster Level

Is that written somewhere in the rules?

 

[Stalker0]

Is that written somewhere in the rules?

It was in 3.0. In 3.5, the DC for a scroll is now DC 20 + caster level, which makes your caster level effectively still UMD check -20.

However, by the book, there is no set DC for staves, which might indicate you cannot use them with umd.

However, if you choose to do so, I would go with with the UMD check - 20 for caster level...which can make staves very appealing for warlocks.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I think all this is unnecessarily complex. According to the book, "the wielder can use his caster level when activating the power of a staff if it's higher than the caster level of the staff." (Emphasis mine.)

So when you use UMD to activate a staff, you don't really have a caster level, so you go with the staff's default caster level, just as if your own caster level were lower than the staff's. Simple enough.

 

[Fedifensor]

It was in 3.0. In 3.5, the DC for a scroll is now DC 20 + caster level, which makes your caster level effectively still UMD check -20.

However, by the book, there is no set DC for staves, which might indicate you cannot use them with umd.

Actually, there is a set DC for staves...

Use a Wand

Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand’s spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill also applies to other spell trigger magic items, such as staffs.

Also, you can emulate caster level...

Emulate a Class Feature

Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).

So, when you activate a staff, you roll UMD, emulating the caster level of a spellcaster. As long as you get at least a 20 (the DC to activate a spell trigger magic item), the staff works. If your roll -20 is higher than the caster level of the staff, you use that roll. Seems simple enough.

 

[frankthedm]

Also, you can emulate caster level...

So, when you activate a staff, you roll UMD, emulating the caster level of a spellcaster. As long as you get at least a 20 (the DC to activate a spell trigger magic item), the staff works. If your roll -20 is higher than the caster level of the staff, you use that roll. Seems simple enough.

You can emulate caster level if you need to, not if you want to. Activating staves and wands have thier own method.

Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case...

If the DM wants UMD to be able to manufacter spellcasting power rather than tricking the item into using the power it already has, that is their call. The skill need no power boostng IMHO.

Staff of fire, maybe. It should run out by the time you get a chance at the wall of fire invocation. Staffs are costly and the Eldrich blast is supposed to emulate a caster being able to burn through staves and wands. You won't get a major power upswing out of a staff. You will be far more versitile with scads of scrolls.

 

[Fedifensor]

You can emulate caster level if you need to, not if you want to. Activating staves and wands have thier own method.

Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case...

No problem. You just use Emulate a Class Feature aspect instead of using the Use a Wand portion of the skill. The check is a bit harder (as you have to emulate a caster level of 1 or higher), but that will allow you to use your result -20 as the caster level for the staff.

 

[frankthedm]

No problem. You just use Emulate a Class Feature aspect instead of using the Use a Wand portion of the skill. The check is a bit harder (as you have to emulate a caster level of 1 or higher), but that will allow you to use your result -20 as the caster level for the staff.

Activating staves and wands have thier own method.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Agreement with those stating that the check to activate a staff with UMD is a DC20 Pass/Fail; there is no emulated caster level when activating a staff or wand.

Now, my question - let's say our Rog-15 activates a fireball from a staff with a UMD check. He has an Int and Cha of 16 each.

The DC of the spell cast by the staff is 10 + 3 + the relevant ability modifier. The minimum ability score is 13, so the DC will be at least 14.

What is the relevant ability modifier? If a wizard activated the staff, it would be Int. If a sorcerer activated the staff, it would be Cha. If a cleric (somehow) activated the staff, it would be Wis.

But the person activating the staff is a rogue. And UMD lets him activate the staff not as though he had a wizard's class list, or as though he had a sorcerer's class list; it lets him activate the staff as though fireball were on his class list.

So a cleric using UMD to activate fireball from a staff would use his Wisdom modifier; for a brief moment, it is as though fireball were a cleric spell.

But the rogue? What ability modifier is used when setting the DC of a spell from the rogue class list?

-Hyp.