Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: Get Better At Skills With These Feats

The latest Unearthed Arcana from Jeremy Crawford and again featuring guest writer Robert J. Schwalb introduces a number of feats which make you better at skills. Each increases the skill's primary ability score, doubles your proficiency bonus, and gives you a little bonus ability. "This week we introduce new feats to playtest. Each of these feats makes you better at one of the game’s eighteen skills. We invite you to read them, give them a try in play, and let us know what you think in the survey we release in the next installment of Unearthed Arcana."

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[Corwin]

Well, as I've shared complaints about expertise at ENW before, in other threads, and been joined by others, all I can say is, around.

Well, to borrow a turn of phrase from someone you are familiar with...

"A few of us have complained about something" != There's a problem.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Well, to borrow a turn of phrase from someone you are familiar with...

"A few of us have complained about something" != There's a problem.

Actually, that's entirely wrong. If I say 'I have a problem with this" then there is, ipso facto (a nice to know Latin phrase that means 'by this very fact'), a problem. Maybe not for you or anyone else, but clearly a problem does exist. What you mean to say, in your snarky response, is:

"A few of us have complained about something" != everybody (or most or many people) has (have) a problem.

Unfortunately, I've never said or implied any such thing, so maybe just file that one away for a time where it's appropriate. You know, be prepared, just in case.

 

[Corwin]

Actually, that's entirely wrong. If I say 'I have a problem with this" then there is, ipso facto (a nice to know Latin phrase that means 'by this very fact'), a problem. Maybe not for you or anyone else, but clearly a problem does exist. What you mean to say, in your snarky response, is:

"A few of us have complained about something" != everybody (or most or many people) has (have) a problem.

Unfortunately, I've never said or implied any such thing, so maybe just file that one away for a time where it's appropriate. You know, be prepared, just in case.

Whoa there. You may wanna go ahead and roll back for a sec, Tex. Maybe take a look at the context, to which Hussar was speaking, before gettin' all uppity such as you are. Or are you intentionally working to move the goalpost? If so, nevermind then. By all means proceed with caution.

 

[Hussar]

DC inflation in printed modules wasn't your argument before (we can just scroll back to the threads I responded to). If that's what you meant, instead of there being no complaints about expertise in general or grappling in specific, then, sure, there's no DC inflation in printed material.

It wasn't my arguement, just one that I saw in this or the other thread - that these feats will cause DC inflation. Since expertise hasn't, I'd say that's a pretty moot issue.

Look, I look at it like this. If I tell you that I'm having problems with CR system in 5e, no one will bat an eye. That's a known issue for people. Whether you or I particularly agree with the issue isn't the point. It's an issue and you can point to a dozen different threads where it is being discussed.

Or, if I say that I'm having a problem with the stealth rules in 5e. Again, finding a dozen or so threads about this isn't much of a challenge. It's a known issue with the system. Again, not my particular issue, but, it seems to cause consternation among some people.

Or, as another example, the Sharpshooter or Great Weapon Master feats. Hardly a week goes by without someone bringing those up as a problem in their game, and some potential fix. Fair enough. It's a known issue.

But expertise? I read the forums pretty often. To be honest, this is the first time I've ever seen anyone complain about expertise at all. Maybe I just missed things in the scrum, but, it certainly doesn't seem to be much of an issue for people. I mean, I just Googled Jeremy Crawford's Twitter feed using Expertise as a search keyword, and it came up with a few very recent tweets about this particular UA Article, and a bunch of stuff about Crossbow Expert.

Like I said, if this is an issue, where is the evidence of it being an issue at the table?

 

[cbwjm]

The only issue I've heard about expertise is that these feats grant it and some people would rather expertise stays (almost) exclusively with the bard and rogue.

 

[Lanliss]

The only issue I've heard about expertise is that these feats grant it and some people would rather expertise stays (almost) exclusively with the bard and rogue.

Aye, and I am firmly against that particular Niche-protection. Everyone should be able to be an Expert at something, IMO.

 

[cbwjm]

Aye, and I am firmly against that particular Niche-protection. Everyone should be able to be an Expert at something, IMO.

I agree, I would love for my wizard characters to become experts in arcana without having to sip into another class to do it. These feats allow that and not without cost either since it takes up a feat slot. Rogues and bards will still be far ahead with their free expertise from their class.

I do wonder if we had just one or two feats in the PHB that granted expertise if there would be this much push back on these feats.

 

[Lanliss]

I agree, I would love for my wizard characters to become experts in arcana without having to sip into another class to do it. These feats allow that and not without cost either since it takes up a feat slot. Rogues and bards will still be far ahead with their free expertise from their class.

I do wonder if we had just one or two feats in the PHB that granted expertise if there would be this much push back on these feats.

I doubt it. As a UA, these feats look like they are changing the "Rule", so to speak, that Rogue and Bard get Expertise. It is their class feature, that is one of the main reasons people will dip into them (For char-op reasons anyway.) . If there had been a few examples in the PHB of another way to get expertise, I don't think these would be much of a problem at all, except for the ones that sparked non-expertise related complaints like Menacing/Diplomat.

 

[Gradine]

I doubt it. As a UA, these feats look like they are changing the "Rule", so to speak, that Rogue and Bard get Expertise. It is their class feature, that is one of the main reasons people will dip into them (For char-op reasons anyway.) . If there had been a few examples in the PHB of another way to get expertise, I don't think these would be much of a problem at all, except for the ones that sparked non-expertise related complaints like Menacing/Diplomat.

Do you think folks would have complained if Ritual Caster had been a UA feat and not in the PHB? Or Martial Adept, for that matter?

 

[Lanliss]

Do you think folks would have complained if Ritual Caster had been a UA feat and not in the PHB? Or Martial Adept, for that matter?

Quite possibly, yes. Not so much the Ritual caster, since that is largely "Magic" rather than a specific class ability. Martial Adept, I would say yes. So many discussion talk about how Battlemaster is the Best fighter, people would immediately cry foul of other classes getting his ability.

Imagine, a Barbarian Great Weapon master with Precise Strike!, Or Tripping strike, to get free advantage with his first swing of an axe! He would never need to use Reckless Attack again! That is blatant power creep, and we aren't even counting things like a Rogue in the mix. You won't even need a Battlemaster to let Rogues sneak attack off-turn!