D&D 5E Unearthed Arcana: Gothic Lineages & New Race/Culture Distinction

The latest Unearthed Arcana contains the Dhampir, Reborn, and Hexblood races. The Dhampir is a half-vampire; the Hexblood is a character which has made a pact with a hag; and the Reborn is somebody brought back to life.

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Perhaps the bigger news is this declaration on how race is to be handled in future D&D books as it joins other games by stating that:

"...the race options in this article and in future D&D books lack the Ability Score Increase trait, the Language trait, the Alignment trait, and any other trait that is purely cultural. Racial traits henceforth reflect only the physical or magical realities of being a player character who’s a member of a particular lineage. Such traits include things like darkvision, a breath weapon (as in the dragonborn), or innate magical ability (as in the forest gnome). Such traits don’t include cultural characteristics, like language or training with a weapon or a tool, and the traits also don’t include an alignment suggestion, since alignment is a choice for each individual, not a characteristic shared by a lineage."

 

[squibbles]

I don't think that declaring anything that ventures into harmful stereotypes or cultural associations should necessarily be declared as "overinterpreting" particularly when some of these associations are either fairly explicit or rooted in the transmission of recognizably racist tropes. For example, we can see a lot of contextualized Euro-American racism towards non-whites and colonialism in works like John Carter of Mars, which is an early 20 century sci-fi novella about alien civilizations on Mars. But behind the veil of these sci-fi stories are tropes rooted in the racism of Americans fighting American Indians in Westerns, colonial adventure stories set in Africa and Asia, "White Man's Burden," etc. These are the tropes that influenced sci-fi and fantasy, which D&D inherited, adopted, and uncritically used while also establishing some of its own nasty tropes.

And in new products, must emancipate from this. But rewriting... retroediting... mmm no thanks. Every product of human brain is son of its time and this must be respected because allow us to see where to go. As a warning helps you to keep out from danger.

I mostly agree that we don't need to go back and re-write everything. [...] But, likewise, I don't think we should necessarily leave them in their original form out of "respect". We can conclude that something is an insensitive or even racists piece of steaming garbage, and also decide that it's not worth the cost of re-writing it. It's still just a business decision.

Hey, just read the first 5 books in the John Carter of Mars series, and couldn't restrain myself from doing a 'no actually' here.

JCoM doesn't put up a veil to disguise racism. The first book opens with mighty whitey and proud ex-confederate John killing a ton of native Americans, and proceeds to extol the myths of the South's lost cause narrative from there.

That said, none of the peoples of Mars map onto essentialist stereotypes in the sense that this thread has been discussing them (at least I think not, I missed 30 pages here and there). The green martians are "savage", for example, but they're also rational, dispassionate, and technologically advanced. Moreover, the only recurring green martian character plays against type. And all the other stock bad guys are either non-essentialized or are not coded with negative non-white stereotypes. (lots of societies with an "honorable" faction and jerk-ass faction)

---

More to the point of you guys' back and forth on this, I think the key to thinking about past works is to embrace complexity. A thing can be racist and objectionable but also brilliantly creative. JCoM doesn't need to and shouldn't be remembered principally for its racism, though we can all see that the racism is there, and refrain from including it in contemporary adaptations. The Lovecraft Country quote about it, I think, is excellent: "Stories are like people. Loving them doesn't make them perfect."

And the awesome thing about works that are a product of their time is just how strange they can be. JCoM is constantly asserting that being a "fighting man" is the ideal and virtuous form of life and dumping on philosophers and scientists. Its a war-fantasy series featuring genocide that was published mostly in the immediate aftermath of World War 1.

So, while I wouldn't say that the appropriate outlook regarding insensitive past works is respect, mind melding with other times and their conventions has value.

 

[Aldarc]

Hey, just read the first 5 books in the John Carter of Mars series, and couldn't restrain myself from doing a 'no actually' here.

JCoM doesn't put up a veil to disguise racism. The first book opens with mighty whitey and proud ex-confederate John killing a ton of native Americans, and proceeds to extol the myths of the South's lost cause narrative from there.

That said, none of the peoples of Mars map onto essentialist stereotypes in the sense that this thread has been discussing them (at least I think not, I missed 30 pages here and there). The green martians are "savage", for example, but they're also rational, dispassionate, and technologically advanced. Moreover, the only recurring green martian character plays against type. And all the other stock bad guys are either non-essentialized or are not coded with negative non-white stereotypes. (lots of societies with an "honorable" faction and jerk-ass faction)

Martian society, on the whole, is also depicted as exotic, savage, decadent, decaying, dying, and in need of saving by the intervention of the foreign white male protagonist. It's not exactly a coincidence, for example, that John Carter goes from fighting American Indians on Earth to waking up on Mars and finding himself among various color-coded peoples, including the "Red Men of Mars." While not every Barsoomian society maps neatly onto real world cultures, ERB's narratives are transparently rooted in the aforementioned colonial stories set in the American "Wild West," the "Orient," and "Darkest Africa."

More to the point of you guys' back and forth on this, I think the key to thinking about past works is to embrace complexity. A thing can be racist and objectionable but also brilliantly creative. JCoM doesn't need to and shouldn't be remembered principally for its racism, though we can all see that the racism is there, and refrain from including it in contemporary adaptations. The Lovecraft Country quote about it, I think, is excellent: "Stories are like people. Loving them doesn't make them perfect."

I personally enjoyed the Barsoom Chronicles as a young teenager, and I still have fond memories of the story, with occasional re-reads. But let's not pretend that that there are not racist, colonialist tropes in the books that have found their way through transmission, influence, and the like into D&D.

 

[Azuresun]

Right off the rails into a flaming dumpster with this thread...

It really is peak ENWorld, isn't it?

 

[Mind of tempest]

It really is peak ENWorld, isn't it?

most of the net is the same so not really.

 

[Chaosmancer]

One thing I can't get over is how... passionate people are getting over such a minor change.

Just for an example, one of the "new" design philosophies for this is that new lineages are going to be designed with common, + 1 language of you choice. Just over a quick perusal, here are all the races I could find with that trait from the "original" design. Humans, Changelings, Warforged, Kalashatar, Half-elves, Vedalken and Tabaxi.

Seven out of about 36 races is about 19%, with them being in the PHB, one in Volos, in Eberron and in Ravnica. So, about one in every single book featuring a new race.

This isn't a new design principle. It isn't even a super rare design that we've only seen once.

 

[Remathilis]

Martian society, on the whole, is also depicted as exotic, savage, decadent, decaying, dying, and in need of saving by the intervention of the foreign white male protagonist. It's not exactly a coincidence, for example, that John Carter goes from fighting American Indians on Earth to waking up on Mars and finding himself among various color-coded peoples, including the "Red Men of Mars." While not every Barsoomian society maps neatly onto real world cultures, ERB's narratives are transparently rooted in the aforementioned colonial stories set in the American "Wild West," the "Orient," and "Darkest Africa."


I personally enjoyed the Barsoom Chronicles as a young teenager, and I still have fond memories of the story, with occasional re-reads. But let's not pretend that that there are not racist, colonialist tropes in the books that have found their way through transmission, influence, and the like into D&D.

Not that I want to rewrite the past, but let's borrow this as an example: how do you change Barsoom to be less dependent on those racist and colonial tropes? It sounds like you could easily change John Carter's history prior to going to Mars to remove the confederacy and Indian-fighting elements, but you literally make it sound that the entire premise is inherently flawed and there is nothing that can be done. If someone wanted to use JCoM as a template for a game or other media work, they couldn't avoid repeating the same mistakes.

That's what really worries me. I'm a big proponent of archetypes (both in the Jung and Campbell models, though I relegate it to fictional analysis) and increasingly, it feels that these archetypes themselves are the problem, the Original Sin that cannot be cleansed but also must not be allowed. Can something like Barsoom be used in a non-offensive way or is the inherent premise flawed from the core?

 

[Mind of tempest]

Not that I want to rewrite the past, but let's borrow this as an example: how do you change Barsoom to be less dependent on those racist and colonial tropes? It sounds like you could easily change John Carter's history prior to going to Mars to remove the confederacy and Indian-fighting elements, but you literally make it sound that the entire premise is inherently flawed and there is nothing that can be done. If someone wanted to use JCoM as a template for a game or other media work, they couldn't avoid repeating the same mistakes.

That's what really worries me. I'm a big proponent of archetypes (both in the Jung and Campbell models, though I relegate it to fictional analysis) and increasingly, it feels that these archetypes themselves are the problem, the Original Sin that cannot be cleansed but also must not be allowed. Can something like Barsoom be used in a non-offensive way or is the inherent premise flawed from the core?

it is unknown plus human hate being put in boxes but love to put everything in boxes so who knows?

 

[Aldarc]

Not that I want to rewrite the past, but let's borrow this as an example: how do you change Barsoom to be less dependent on those racist and colonial tropes? It sounds like you could easily change John Carter's history prior to going to Mars to remove the confederacy and Indian-fighting elements, but you literally make it sound that the entire premise is inherently flawed and there is nothing that can be done. If someone wanted to use JCoM as a template for a game or other media work, they couldn't avoid repeating the same mistakes.

That's what really worries me. I'm a big proponent of archetypes (both in the Jung and Campbell models, though I relegate it to fictional analysis) and increasingly, it feels that these archetypes themselves are the problem, the Original Sin that cannot be cleansed but also must not be allowed. Can something like Barsoom be used in a non-offensive way or is the inherent premise flawed from the core?

The first step is to identify the most egregiously problematic aspects that are rooted in these colonial and racist tropes. From there, I would consider how these tropes could be subverted in more positive or deconstructive ways. We could begin by questioning some of the narrative framing of Barsoom: Is Barsoom actually dying and in need of saving? Is the earthling (e.g., John Carter, Flash Gordon, etc.) actually helping or are they making things worse? Does the earthling actually understand the Martian ecology or diverse cultures on Barsoom or are they misunderstanding things through a lens of ignorance? Are there better ways to understand and discuss the peoples of Barsoom instead of their color?

 

[Stefano Rinaldelli]

Not that I want to rewrite the past, but let's borrow this as an example: how do you change Barsoom to be less dependent on those racist and colonial tropes? It sounds like you could easily change John Carter's history prior to going to Mars to remove the confederacy and Indian-fighting elements, but you literally make it sound that the entire premise is inherently flawed and there is nothing that can be done. If someone wanted to use JCoM as a template for a game or other media work, they couldn't avoid repeating the same mistakes.

That's what really worries me. I'm a big proponent of archetypes (both in the Jung and Campbell models, though I relegate it to fictional analysis) and increasingly, it feels that these archetypes themselves are the problem, the Original Sin that cannot be cleansed but also must not be allowed. Can something like Barsoom be used in a non-offensive way or is the inherent premise flawed from the core?

This question don't move me. it will depend ever on the sensibility of people who approach it. Who will be sensible to its issues, will leave it on the shelf. Who's not, will use it. Everything you'll try to do to fix it is wrong. Barsoom was created that way and will remain as a witness of its times. The same as Conan tales, that are brutally stereotyping black people. I'd prefer to live an adventure that respect the original creation, accepting its flaws, than to try to make a sensible readers version of the story/world. The only important thing to do is to reach an agreement with sensible players before start the whole thing, based on trust and respect, assuming that if the world is racist do not mean that the DM is racist and not necessarily the story has to be. If I were black I suppose i would enjoy to make a black PC in a contest of racism to fight it directly even only in my imagination.

 

[Remathilis]

Barsoom was created that way and will remain as a witness of its times. The same as Conan tales, that are brutally stereotyping black people. I'd prefer to live an adventure that respect the original creation, accepting its flaws, than to try to make a sensible readers version of the story/world.

I'm not suggesting that these things be removed, changed or censored, I'm asking if you can emulate the style of sword-and-planet romance without making it offensive and then what do you do it prevent it.

The first step is to identify the most egregiously problematic aspects that are rooted in these colonial and racist tropes. From there, I would consider how these tropes could be subverted in more positive or deconstructive ways. We could begin by questioning some of the narrative framing of Barsoom: Is Barsoom actually dying and in need of saving? Is the earthling (e.g., John Carter, Flash Gordon, etc.) actually helping or are they making things worse? Does the earthling actually understand the Martian ecology or diverse cultures on Barsoom or are they misunderstanding things through a lens of ignorance? Are there better ways to understand and discuss the peoples of Barsoom instead of their color?

The problem is, that sounds more like a critique or deconstruction of the genre rather than an attempt to fix it. It might be a good social commentary to make Mars a relatively prosperous area until bumbling white-guy John shows up killing and screwing things up, but that really isn't fixing it as much as satirizing it.

it is unknown plus human hate being put in boxes but love to put everything in boxes so who knows?

Humanity has a natural urge to label and categorize info to make sense of it.