Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana May 2018: Centaurs and Minotaurs

[Yaarel]

On Twitter, Crawford points out, in D&D, some horses are Large, but other horses are Medium (pony).

So, this is a race of My Little Pony Centaur, after all.

And a Medium centaur can, indeed, anatomically ride a Large horse.

 

[Olive]

Size is a bit weird anyway. Horses aren't generally 10 feet long.

And humans aren't 5' wide - it's a representation of how much space you take up in combat.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I guess now would be a good time to point out that because Centaurs are Medium: Centaurs can ride other Centaurs.

Well, sure. How else do you think you get baby centaurs?

 

[CapnZapp]

I don't get it with how they're implementing natural weapons. Why must they be a ribbon ability? If someone told me I could play a Minotaur, I would obviously envision playing a Fighter Minotaur that fights with its horns.

But the only one for which these horns are an actual upgrade is dagger-users. And Wizards don't use weapons, they use spells.

1d6 is simply not competitive enough - any weapon user will want and need to get a bigger weapon, right away at level 1. Maybe if the horns counted as off-hand weapons so you could two-weapon fight with them (since without the fighting style, that would at least be equal to picking up a light off-hand weapon).

Then you get the Charger feat for free. Which is a weak feat, and here you're saddled with your weak horns. Sure it's better than nothing since it remains free.

Hammering Horns is weak. You give up your opportunity attack capability and for what? To push the foe. Presumably so you can escape its opportunity attack. But you're a strength fighter - you're likely the one party member that WANTS to tank enemies. Still, technically better than nothing (but it's a close call).

So.

What is so OP with getting actual horns that you can use?

What am I missing that explains the need to revisit an obscure old UA and nerfing these horns into oblivion?

Please don't tell me y'all would have abandoned the dwarf and half-orc fighters just for a measly point of damage... Le sigh in advance...

 

[CapnZapp]

Not much here.

1) Natural weapons that are no better than a simple weapon. Has some utility if your running into issue with hands, so you can hold a shield and a focus and still attack. Otherwise pretty much a ribbon.

3) Goring Rush doesn't even synergize with Hammering Horns. You can run at a monster and hit with your horns, but not shove it, or you can stand next to it and shove it? Seems counterintuitive.

Yes. Let me comment by this smiley:

 

[CapnZapp]

So Hammering Horns can be done on a melee attack that isn't horns?

Like a Minotaur can swing with a greataxe and then shove with their horns as part of a reaction.

In my eloquent series of replies, allow me to:

 

[CapnZapp]

If tunnels were made by gnomes, then medium creatures would have to squeeze.

A gnome could not make a tunnel small enough to prevent a human but still wide enough to squeeze through himself. Not in 5E anyway.

Gnomes are small, but that does not mean a smaller space. Small creatures share the 5x5 space with medium, precisely to make all player races equal in this regard.

 

[CapnZapp]

Let me be specific what my actual question is.

What is the scenario where d10 horns breaks the game to the extent we needed a second UA on minos? (It can't just be "somewhat powerful" - it apparently is so very OP a second revision was deemed necessary). Please be detailed and specific.

Thank you.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Monks, for a start.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Let me be specific what my actual question is.

What is the scenario where d10 horns breaks the game to the extent we needed a second UA on minos? (It can't just be "somewhat powerful" - it apparently is so very OP a second revision was deemed necessary). Please be detailed and specific.

Thank you.

You're asking us?
Personally I don't think that giving a weapon superior to even martial weapons as a racial ability is going to "break the game". Its powerful, and unbalancing, but you need to go quite a bit further to be able to consider 5e "broken".

If I was going to make a new version anyway, I'd probably correct the horn damage down to something more suitable and realistic as part of the changes though.
(Although I do think that any intelligent, tool-using, creature capable of working metal is going to get more use out of wielding an actual weapon than relying on a relatively blunt and soft object that requires bringing your face into stabbing range to use.)