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Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana Returns to Monthly With Some Revised Subclasses


Thurmas

Explorer
I beg to differ, by giving the favored soul the whole list, you are giving it 95% of domains possible. If we had a limited -emphasis on limited 'cause books have limited space- set of domains, we have artificially limited the amount and variety of concepts we can cover with the same subclass. If you want more, you are at the mercy of DM fiat. Besides it not only covers champions of the gods, but descendants of the gods and celestials.

That's all true and I understand your point. But by using a domain format you also open up the possibility of allowing non-cleric spells into the mix, such as Druid only spells for the fey or spells that are Wizard only that say Azuth or Oghma bestowed. Those other restrictions already exist, admittedly. Clerics don't cover every possible outlook with their domains. Druids don't cover all the land types with their circles. But you can certainly get thematically close.

I also just don't see that certain deities would allow their Favored Soul access to every spell. Kelemvor, for example, would never allow his followers access to Animate Dead (Yes I know every Cleric has access to it). Domains help steer that.

Edited: After seeing your post in the FS poll thread, I want to clarify. I liked the first FS attempt that gave the domain spells as known. Not as additional options to learn. This is all under the assumption that you are given those domain spells. If you aren't given the domain spells, then yes, the entire Cleric list is preferred.
 
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MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
That's all true and I understand your point. But by using a domain format you also open up the possibility of allowing non-cleric spells into the mix, such as Druid only spells for the fey or spells that are Wizard only that say Azuth or Oghma bestowed. Those other restrictions already exist, admittedly. Clerics don't cover every possible outlook with their domains. Druids don't cover all the land types with their circles. But you can certainly get thematically close.

I also just don't see that certain deities would allow their Favored Soul access to every spell. Kelemvor, for example, would never allow his followers access to Animate Dead (Yes I know every Cleric has access to it). Domains help steer that.

Edited: After seeing your post in the FS poll thread, I want to clarify. I liked the first FS attempt that gave the domain spells as known. Not as additional options to learn. This is all under the assumption that you are given those domain spells. If you aren't given the domain spells, then yes, the entire Cleric list is preferred.

That ship has sailed, bonus domain spells are a thing of the past. Having them would invalidate the subclasses in core, and designers long ago decided those were set in stone.

And well, favored souls are "special" in that they don't directly get their spells from a deity. They aren't dependent on the gods. While a cleric gets spells directly from their god, a favored soul derives them all from their divine spark, that can be imbued into them by a deity, but could as well be innate by virtue of their divine parentage.
 
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gyor

Legend
That ship has sailed, bonus domain spells are a thing of the past. Having them would invalidate the subclasses in core, and designers long ago decided those were set in stone.

And well, favored souls are "special" in that they don't directly get their spells from a deity. They aren't dependent on the gods. While a cleric gets spells directly from their god, a favored soul derives them all from their divine spark, that can be imbued into them by a deity, but could as well be innate by virtue of their divine parentage.

That is an excellent point, in some ways the Favoured Souls are closer to the Chosen like Elminister or Manshoon (who is still a Chosen of Mystria, even though he gives her the finger at every opportunity) then clerics. Favoured Souls are basically part God (and in 5e fluff so are the Angels that spawned them), admittedly a tiny piece.

The Gods allow Clerics allow to draw power from them, they encourage Paladin's to swear oaths that link them to the ideals that Gods embody, but the Favoured Soul has their own divine spark, they are effectly proxies of a God, either by blood or by adoption, endowed directly with a piece of the God in their own souls. Obviously the divine spark isn't big enough to make them actual Gods, it's would be more of a spark of a spark, but it's does give them powers.

Look at how Eliminister and the other Chosen in the Forgotten Realms use their magic, innately, sorceror like, in some cases including healing.

Now Favoured Souls would be a particular breed of Chosen, not the innately most powerful kind that receives immortality, but a less, but more flexible breed.

So Domains don't really fit the Favoured Soul as the Favoured Soul is not a Priest (they can be, but it's not required) like a cleric will be universal viewed as a Priest even if they chose not to be involved in organized religion.

Jesus would be a Favoured Soul, so would the Antichrist and the Pope a Cleric, just for comparison sake.
 

Xeviat

Hero
Supporter
That is an excellent point, in some ways the Favoured Souls are closer to the Chosen like Elminister or Manshoon (who is still a Chosen of Mystria, even though he gives her the finger at every opportunity) then clerics. Favoured Souls are basically part God (and in 5e fluff so are the Angels that spawned them), admittedly a tiny piece.

The Gods allow Clerics allow to draw power from them, they encourage Paladin's to swear oaths that link them to the ideals that Gods embody, but the Favoured Soul has their own divine spark, they are effectly proxies of a God, either by blood or by adoption, endowed directly with a piece of the God in their own souls. Obviously the divine spark isn't big enough to make them actual Gods, it's would be more of a spark of a spark, but it's does give them powers.

Look at how Eliminister and the other Chosen in the Forgotten Realms use their magic, innately, sorceror like, in some cases including healing.

Now Favoured Souls would be a particular breed of Chosen, not the innately most powerful kind that receives immortality, but a less, but more flexible breed.

So Domains don't really fit the Favoured Soul as the Favoured Soul is not a Priest (they can be, but it's not required) like a cleric will be universal viewed as a Priest even if they chose not to be involved in organized religion.

Jesus would be a Favoured Soul, so would the Antichrist and the Pope a Cleric, just for comparison sake.

Interesting thought. Makes me want Timeless Body on the Favored Soul.
 


Maybe I'm missing something. Where are you getting this from? Your bonus attack (and second bonus attack if spending a ki) use your monk damage, which is a d4 at third level. Not counting flurry (because you'd only have 3 total ki, and most monks spend ki on other things besides just flurry), you've have one attack at 1d10+DEX, and one bonus at 1d4+DEX.

*Edit* Ninja'd

Just to try and clear up confusion, that was a response to another poster suggesting that the Kensei be allowed to use their weapon to use the Flurry of Blows ability.


Honestly, I'm not enthused about this new kensei, I find the majority of the abilities boring after level 3. However, it does actually function now and doesn't require the twisting and champing of the previous version. I just wish their 6th, 11th and 17th level abilities were interesting... well, actually I'll give them level 6. The magic to ignore resistance they should keep and precise strike is more damage which is actually kind of a cool ability.

So really, I just want more interesting abilties for 11 and 17, accuracy isn't interesting on a sword wielding martial artist. Crazy martial art moves are interesting. Though, the problem could be that they wanted abilities that worked both for melee and ranged, which is why these are such generic abilities.
 



Mercule

Adventurer
Jesus would be a Favoured Soul, so would the Antichrist and the Pope a Cleric, just for comparison sake.
Actually, according to Christian doctrine, Christ is God.

Discussing the game stats for a deity actively revered by somewhere around a billion folks might not be the best idea on a forum that's Grandma-friendly and has a no politics rule (which, presumably, also applies to its first cousin of religion).
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
I just hope the Shadow Sorcerer and the Raven Queen warlock made the cut.

Yes to Raven Queen. That was one of my favorites (and I skipped the editions in which she made a previous appearnce, so I have no baggage or nostalgia).

My other favorites, from a flavor perspective, are Tranquility Monk and Redemption Paladin, although the latter needs some of the abilities rethought.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
Jesus would be a Favoured Soul, so would the Antichrist and the Pope a Cleric, just for comparison sake.

Dalai Lama is an even better example, imo.

Reminds me of the time I was caddying for the Lama....
 

MechaTarrasque

Adventurer
Now we just need a favored soul fighter or barbarian subclass for Hercules and all those Greek demigods.

Outside of fulfilling the support sorcerer idea, the other big thing here is that the favored soul actual gives a subclass spell to a sorcerer. Admittedly 1 spell is not as good as domain/oath/pact, etc. spells, but once precedent is established, who knows where it will go?
 



BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
Flurrying with Kensei weapons would be very OP without some kind of drawback. They can two-hand a longsword for d10 damage, which would be 3x d10+Dexmod attacks right at 3rd level, far outstripping any other class.

The defensive Path of the Kensei benefit seems set up as a choice. The Kensei gets to either:

1) do a little more damage than most monks, by using a versatile martial weapon: one 1d10+dexmod attack and one 1d4+dexmod martial arts attack (or two extra attacks with flurry, all of this is at level 3)
2) do a little less damage than most monks, but gain +2 AC without having to use a bonus action: gain +2 AC for a turn and make two 1d4+dexmod attacks (or three with flurry, again at level 3)

At early levels they basically get +1 dpr vs other monk subclasses or +2 AC/-2 dpr. Later on the tradeoffs change around a bit due to martial arts damage die increases, but they basically always have a dpr advantage over other subclasses as long as they make attacks with their kensei weapon.

Maybe it doesn't seem like much, but +2 AC without having to burn the bonus action is a pretty big deal for a monk - they have so many other uses for bonus actions.

The Flurry of blows made with the Kensei weapon could be limited to the Martial arts die damage for balance.

I don't have a problem with the defensive aspect of the Kensei, I have a problem with the fact that the Kensei is making so many attacks that aren't with the Kensei weapon. That doesn't translate to what a Kensei should be. This is a fine Zen Archer or Weapon Master Monk, but it ain't no Kensei.
 


MechaTarrasque

Adventurer
I should have been more clear. I mean like numbers or overall results, aside from just the brief mention of Sharpshooter?

Sent from my SM-N910V using EN World mobile app

I would be very surprised if anyone not working for WotC will ever see the numbers. You could tweet Mike Mearls and ask, but getting an answer is a long shot.

The list might misleading as well. If hypothetically, the treachery paladin was the second least popular, it might be the case that the overall subclass is unpopular (people want good leaning paladins), but the mechanisms of the subclass might be popular (people want sneaky paladins), so they might reflavor it (and make some small changes to fit the reflavoring), and an oath of resistance paladin (a good leaning but sneaky paladin who mocks tyrannical authority) might show in the Big Book of Content. To go with the paladin example a little further, the conquest paladin could be the 3rd most popular, but the surveys might indicate that we want them to double down on the Hellknight aspect, so the final version might have a lot more changes then something in the middle of the list, even though it was near the top. [Yes, these examples indicate that the target audience has conflicting views on similar things, which is not uncommon in market research.]
 
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Sacrosanct

Legend
About a year and a half ago I came up with my Kensai homebrew (also a monk subclass). So I was kinda close to what WoTC put out. But I still think I like mine better (ignore my bias ;)

Weapon Bond
Become proficient with one specific melee
weapon of choice. That weapon is now
considered a monk weapon. Upon reaching
6th level, this weapon is also applicable for the
Ki-Empowered strike ability. Additionally, any
natural roll of a 19 or 20 using this weapon is
considered a critical hit.

Weapon Defense
When reaching 6th level, you can use your
weapon to help in defense. Spend 2 ki points to
channel into your weapon to help deflect blows.
Roll your base monk damage dice. Your AC
increases by this amount against all attacks you
can see until the start of your next short rest.

Saintly Weapon
At 11th level, your chosen weapon increases its
reach by 5ft. Additionally, your weapon is now
eligible to be used for your flurry of blows ability.

Whirlwind Attack
When reaching 17th level, as an action, you can
attack all targets within the range of the weapon
from the point where you stand when you invoke
this ability. A separate attack roll must be made
for each target.
 


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