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Chaos Bolt is the first Sorcerer-only spell. Interesting. What I've read so far looks really good. I like the idea of Ceremony quite a bit, but some of the effects (Investiture!) might be a little overpowered.

Chaos Bolt is the first Sorcerer-only spell. Interesting.

What I've read so far looks really good. I like the idea of Ceremony quite a bit, but some of the effects (Investiture!) might be a little overpowered.
 


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nswanson27

First Post
This release was cool and all to read, but honestly I'm hitting the point where I've been teased enough with unofficial material that isn't fully baked.
 

Lanliss

Explorer
A cauldron pact implement would be cool, but it would have to be a small one if the party has to lug it into a dungeon....

Not if it is an extra-dimensional Cauldron*. It would be very mystical to have a Warlck just throwing ingredients into a glowing hole, then they pull out a potion. I would probably add Invocations for it to make special potions, with special reagents. "If you can find Dragon Flesh (Parts of any creature with the 'Dragon' Tag), you can make a Fear Immunity potion that lasts 1 hour. Consumes 1 lb. of the material component.

EDIT: For some reason I wrote "Extra dimensional Dungeon". Fixed.
 
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dave2008

Legend
Pre bounded accuracy that perhaps works. In 5e, however, everyone just about always has a mathematical chance to beat anyone else at anything. Not acknowledging that chance could lead to some salty players.


Personally, I think you are missing the point of 5e. The point in 5e, as I understand it, is to only use the math when needed, otherwise you use common sense and narration. As the DM I would say there is no reasonable chance a STR 10 average dude can beat a STR 18 endo-morph in an arm wrestling contest, thus no check. As [MENTION=54629]pukunui[/MENTION] noted in post #112, this is even supported by the PHB and DMG. I don't really care that it is RAW, it just makes sense to me, that is why I do it. The math can only do so much, you have to use common sense with RPG's I think.


EDIT: and in your example specifically, it would only be an autofail for the 10 STR on 4 numbers (1-4), and only an autowin for the 18 STR on 4 numbers (17-20). Lots of variables between those two sets.

That is my point. The math cannot accurately model the real world, you have to use common sense. While I concede there is some small chance a STR 10 individual could beat a STR 18 individual it is, realistic, a fluke and statistically irrelevant. You can't use the game math in that situation, you have to use common sense, and I believe 5e supports that concept (even if not everyone excepts that).
 


Not if it is an extra-dimensional Cauldron*. It would be very mystical to have a Warlck just throwing ingredients into a glowing hole, then they pull out a potion. I would probably add Invocations for it to make special potions, with special reagents. "If you can find Dragon Flesh (Parts of any creature with the 'Dragon' Tag), you can make a Fear Immunity potion that lasts 1 hour. Consumes 1 lb. of the material component.

EDIT: For some reason I wrote "Extra dimensional Dungeon". Fixed.

That would work.
 

It is. To whit:

That DMG quote makes my point for me. If there's a meaningful consequence for failure, 5E encourages you to roll. If you just say, "Nope, he's got Str 16 and you're Str 15, so he wins the arm-wrestling match and won't accompany you on your quest--you guys chose the wrong champion," it feels non-idiomatic. And that's the simple case! You can do something that actually feels like an arm-wrestling match (I've posted examples before) by inventing your own resolution mechanism, but it feels non-idiomatic. Another example: intellect devourers stick out like a sore thumb because they use a 3d6 vs. Int resolution mechanism.

Obviously I'm not saying you can't use other resolution mechanisms in 5E because I can and do--but I do it less frequently than I would in some other system, because there's no point in playing 5E if you're not going to abide by its idioms. It is a relatively rare occasion when I will call for N of M DC 10 successes, or ask for an ability check to be made against 3d6, because 5E is so married to uniform distributions and d20 rolls. And that is one of the factors that makes me wonder if AD&D might not be easier to revamp than 5E is.
 

I think Puppet should have a Strength save instead of a Con save. With newer spells they should try using some of the less common saving throws, like they tried to do with the Mystic disciplines.
 


I like some of these spells. It's a good article overall.

I am concerned about guiding hand negating too much adventure. It probably wouldn't exist in my campaigns, or if it did it would be significantly higher level.

I really like toll the dead for some reason. It will get some good use in my campaign.

I'm not a fan of virtue. I don't see many reasons to use it on a regular basis, and cantrips should be something you want to use on a regular basis.

I thought ceremony was interesting, but I'm not sure I really want it in the game. The investiture benefit is too powerful, creating holy water already has rules* (see the Equipment chapter of the PHB/Basic Rules), and I don't like the little temporary bonuses for non-adventuring ceremonies. I also think it works better as a downtime activity or set of little rules for holy people (like the holy water equipment rules). They can just say in certain places that if a cleric or paladin performs funeral rites a corpse is immune to becoming undead for 24 hours, no spell needed.

Since someone mentioned healing elixir and potions of healing, it is worth noting that there already are rules for creating permanent potions of healing--two different ways in fact. Proficient use of an herbalism kit allows you to craft them using the crafting rules, and the magical item creation rules allow a caster (including a wizard) to make them faster. So this spell is just a cheaper way for a wizard or warlock to whip them up quickly for more or less immediate usage.

*Granted, since clerics and paladins would get the spell if it became official, it would actually mean that the equipment rules basically were just referencing that spell, since the have the same requirement of 25gp silver, an hour, and a 1st level spell slot.

I agree with Ceremony perhaps being better modeled by a non-magical ritual or perhaps a class ability, but the ship has sailed. I would remove the 25 gp silver (which isn't consumed, though that is probably a typo) and replace it with a holy relic or something similar.

The ship has most definitely not sailed (at least, not in the sense that ceremony is a done deal). It's a playtest article, so we decide whether or not any spell in here becomes a part of the game by our responses to the survey.
 

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