Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: Starter Spells; Plus UA Returning To Monthly & Sage Advice Returning

Chaos Bolt is the first Sorcerer-only spell. Interesting.

What I've read so far looks really good. I like the idea of Ceremony quite a bit, but some of the effects (Investiture!) might be a little overpowered.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
I still have a knee-jerk reaction to wizards getting a healing spell, even one that just creates a potion.

For me it just breaks one of the big distinguishing factors of Arcane Magic. Arcane Magic does not heal.

That's what makes it different from Divine and Primal magic, and the more I think about it, I'd rather just have the crafting of potions be in the crafting rules so anybody can do that with the correct time and resources (really, we desperately need those new crafting rules to replace the crappy ones we have)

Yeah, I don't think I'm going to allow this spell. Potions need to be crafted, you can't just create one magically (barring the artificer who is the crafting master and therefor makes it look like magic due to his speed)
 

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I'm not taking a stand on either side of the "should wizards/warlocks heal or not" question. I'm just curious how the people who say "Arcane magic shouldn't heal" have reconciled the bard in their games.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
I'm not taking a stand on either side of the "should wizards/warlocks heal or not" question. I'm just curious how the people who say "Arcane magic shouldn't heal" have reconciled the bard in their games.
It's easy. The bard is not arcane.

Bards gather their spells from a variety of sources that could match what we think of as arcane, primal, divine, granted, or tap into ancient, long-forgotten sources. The bards themselves may be wholly or partly unaware of the origins, or have sworn to keep the knowledge secret.

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Chaosmancer

Legend
I'm not taking a stand on either side of the "should wizards/warlocks heal or not" question. I'm just curious how the people who say "Arcane magic shouldn't heal" have reconciled the bard in their games.

I forget Bards are considered arcane.

I think of them as using the magic of music and words which is somehow different to my mind.
 


It's easy. The bard is not arcane.

Bards gather their spells from a variety of sources that could match what we think of as arcane, primal, divine, granted, or tap into ancient, long-forgotten sources. The bards themselves may be wholly or partly unaware of the origins, or have sworn to keep the knowledge secret.

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PHB p. 205:

"The spells of wizards, warlocks, sorcerers, and bards are commonly called arcane magic."

So, yes, the bard is arcane. That said, that passage indicates that in 5e, the difference between arcane and divine magic is pretty much based entirely on whether you tap into the Weave directly through your own understanding (arcane) or through some sort of divine power (divine). The nature of those spells are irrelevant to whether they're arcane or divine. In 5e, the arcane/divine divide is downplayed, more or less, and who has what spell is delineated entirely by the character's class (and subclass), which is fine by me. I've never had a problem with arcane magic healing. I DO have a problem specifically with wizards healing.
 

cbwjm

Legend
PHB p. 205:

"The spells of wizards, warlocks, sorcerers, and bards are commonly called arcane magic."

So, yes, the bard is arcane. That said, that passage indicates that in 5e, the difference between arcane and divine magic is pretty much based entirely on whether you tap into the Weave directly through your own understanding (arcane) or through some sort of divine power (divine). The nature of those spells are irrelevant to whether they're arcane or divine. In 5e, the arcane/divine divide is downplayed, more or less, and who has what spell is delineated entirely by the character's class (and subclass), which is fine by me. I've never had a problem with arcane magic healing. I DO have a problem specifically with wizards healing.
Why?
 


I'd point out that healing isn't a daily resource. Fighters can heal on a short rest. Never minding that you can spend hit dice on a short rest, with potential bonuses from the bard.
Multiclass cleric/warlock or warlock with Magic Initiate (cure wounds) can use warlock slots to heal on a short rest. That's the big one.
 

SkidAce

Legend
Supporter
I'm not taking a stand on either side of the "should wizards/warlocks heal or not" question. I'm just curious how the people who say "Arcane magic shouldn't heal" have reconciled the bard in their games.

I'm of the opinion (with perhaps not much to back it up) that the bard is a blend of arcane and divine. Songs/Words reach back into the prehistory of the cosmos, tapping into both sides of the con so to speak.

JMHO.
 


FitzTheRuke

Legend
I got that; was just continuing the conversation. Sorry if that wasn't clear. :eek:

I think your explanation's as good as any for a given campaign. :)
How long has the game considered Bards arcane, anyway? I seem to recall it as a 4e distinction. I can't recall 3.x, and in 2e they were rogues. Weren't they once druidic, or some weird thing?

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cbwjm

Legend
How long has the game considered Bards arcane, anyway? I seem to recall it as a 4e distinction. I can't recall 3.x, and in 2e they were rogues. Weren't they once druidic, or some weird thing?

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1e they were effectively a prestige class that drew upon Druidic spells.

2e, 3e, and 4e they were arcane. 2e they used wizard spells and had a spell book. 4e their source was listed as arcane. 3e and 5e seem similar, a form of arcane magic without being wizardry.
 

1e they were effectively a prestige class that drew upon Druidic spells.

2e, 3e, and 4e they were arcane. 2e they used wizard spells and had a spell book. 4e their source was listed as arcane. 3e and 5e seem similar, a form of arcane magic without being wizardry.
5e does seem like a much-improved, genuinely-full-caster take on the 3.x Bard, and the Valor Bard does look just a bit like the Essentials Skald.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Any reason you can't use Ceremony spell to transfer the Ceremony spell to a Wizard, who transfers back a Find Familiar spell?
 

Leatherhead

Possibly a Idiot.
Any reason you can't use Ceremony spell to transfer the Ceremony spell to a Wizard, who transfers back a Find Familiar spell?

Both have a casting time of one hour, which is exactly long enough to forfeit the investiture. Unless your DM is being generous and lets you ignore the 6 seconds it takes to set up the turn order.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Both have a casting time of one hour, which is exactly long enough to forfeit the investiture. Unless your DM is being generous and lets you ignore the 6 seconds it takes to set up the turn order.

If it has to be cast within 1 hour, wouldn't the hour start counting after the time to cast it?
 

Leatherhead

Possibly a Idiot.
If it has to be cast within 1 hour, wouldn't the hour start counting after the time to cast it?

The hour would start when the first person finishes casting Ceremony, but before the second person can start casting. We are scrutinizing a span of time that is less than a turn long, and you may be able to convince a DM to rule in favor of it, but a strict reading would prevent any spell of one hour casting time or longer from working.
 

I'm not sure how I feel about the potion spell available to Wizards and Warlocks.
I definitely think that there should be something in place to prevent stocking up and then fully renewing casting resources however.

Thematically I don't have an issue with it: I've played an Artificer Wizard as the primary healer for a party. Note that the Artificer ability to produce potions is more limited in some ways than this spell: slots spent to create those potions cannot be regained until the potion is used or destroyed.

I very much doubt that many players will have an issue with the wizard or warlock making potions in terms of stealing their niche as long as the issue of potential free stacking is addressed. In broad terms, each spell slot spent by the wizard to create a potion is a spell slot freed up for the healer to use for something else.
 


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