Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana Takes On Theurgy & War Magic

In the latest Unearthed Arcana from WotC's Mike Mearls and Jeremy Crawford, the wizard gets another look. This week's short two-page PDF includes two Arcane Traditions - Theurgy (wizards with divine patrons) and War Magic (wizards who use evocation and abjuration in combat). "After releasing the 28-page mystic last week, we have a short Unearthed Arcana installment this week: two Arcane Tradition options for the wizard. The Theurgy tradition has appeared in Unearthed Arcana before, but this time we’d like to gather playtest feedback on it. War Magic is an option we’re exploring after reading your feedback on Lore Mastery and seeing interest in a war mage option."

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[Leatherhead]

Those are the class levels at which the cleric gains the spells

I was talking about when you can learn the spell. Which is why I used "get" and not "cast".

 

[cbwjm]

I was talking about when you can learn the spell. Which is why I used "get" and not "cast".

The wizard can't get the spells earlier than the cleric. The rules for the spellbook require that they be able to cast spell slots of the appropriate level, nothing in this subclass supercedes that.

 

[Leatherhead]

The wizard can't get the spells earlier than the cleric. The rules for the spellbook require that they be able to cast spell slots of the appropriate level, nothing in this subclass supercedes that.

I also used "different", not "lower".

It was used in this context:

By the time you could learn Scrying with the Knowledge Domain and this class feature, you could have already learned it, turning it into a choice of any 9th level Cleric Spell instead. Which is really good, because you would have otherwise had to pay 2 high level spell picks before you could start doing so. Which reinforces the idea that it's a huge system mastery trap because it isn't obvious to everybody.

 

[cbwjm]

I also used "different", not "lower".

It was used in this context:

By the time you could learn Scrying with the Knowledge Domain and this class feature, you could have already learned it, turning it into a choice of any 9th level Cleric Spell instead. Which is really good, because you would have otherwise had to pay 2 high level spell picks before you could start doing so. Which reinforces the idea that it's a huge system mastery trap because it isn't obvious to everybody.

Maybe there is confusion over how you describe spell acquisition due in part to level being used as spell level or class level. You even say that "2nd, 4th, 6th, and 8th level spells aren't even granted by domains" so you can understand people's confusion since it sounds you are talking about spell levels, not levels at which domain spells are gained.

Maybe arcane initiate needs clarification before being published (if it gets published which I think there is a good change that it will since they are now asking for playtest feedback), I read it as requiring you to gain all of the domain spells, as in, you cannot pick other cleric spells until you have all 10 of the spells granted by the domain in your spell book. Sure this means that some arcane theurges will be able to start picking general cleric spells from level 10 onwards while others may have to wait until 11th level, but I don't think that is a huge issue.

 

[Wrathamon]

maybe a crazy thought but the mystic theurge could be a multiclass Feat that requires Wizard Cleric level as a prereq and somehow makes that a "good" choice

No idea what the benefit would be

I dont like "yanking" cleric domains and adding it to the wizard, as those domains are designed for the cleric, and it makes a muddy crossover depending on the domain.

I would prefer a take where a wizard "steals" magic from powers that be and gets access to "divine magic" but at a price. I also sorta like the Invoker from past editions but I know that is not a theurge but more of a blasting wizard like cleric.

anyways, I think the warmage should be good at "mass warfare" and some of the abilities sing to a focus on war but not all. Most seem to be about surviving combat or dealing more damage.

neither of these feel very inspired by the narrative but are trying to "fit" the role they were in the past.

 

[Tony Vargas]

War Magic

I'm not sure if there was actual demand for this, or if this was a result of misinterpreting everyone realizing the Lore wizard needed to be stripped of like half of it's power before it could be a viable option.

There was a War Mage in 3.5, so, maybe that's the inspiration? It was very different from a wizard archetype, of course...

 

[Xeviat]

I'm struggling to think of a situation where a wizard using healing magic could possibly be abused. The only negative possibility is a breakdown of niche protection, but that's not munchkinism.

What's that ability that lets a wizard choose a 1st level Spell and use it at-will.


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[Sword of Spirit]

What's that ability that lets a wizard choose a 1st level Spell and use it at-will.

Good catch.

To be fair, it is gained at 18th level, when it will be of limited in-combat usefulness, and when out of combat healing will be unlikely to be a big issue.

 

[TwoSix]

Good catch.

To be fair, it is gained at 18th level, when it will be of limited in-combat usefulness, and when out of combat healing will be unlikely to be a big issue.

Pretty much. Compared to turning the whole party into dragons, free out of combat healing isn't a real balance concern.

 

[jrowland]

We already have options for that. The GM can implement the healing surge variant rule from the DMG if they wish to run that sort of game.
Or they can give out a wand, staff, shield, ring or heck just let lots of potions drop and alow characters to purchase bandoliers for their potions.

or the wizard can play a theurge...