Unexpected TPK: Unbalanced, bad circumstances, or fluke?

[Mal Malenkirk]

So the encounter was designed so the PCs would all be in close blast range?
That ought to ramp up the EL for cheese.

Warlorck's powers all have a range of 10 or less (at least for the heroic tier). Level 1 cleric's longest ranged powers is 5 if he's a Wisdom focused cleric. Otherwise, it's down to throwing stuff.

The only advantage in starting this fight 30 square away would have been to give a chance to the PC to scream 'Oh God, no!' and run away.

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IMO, if you are going to play a short team, a defender is mandatory. I've expressed that view often.

A star quarterback is meaningless with no offensive line. You need someone who is designed to stand on the front line so that the other classes can do their schtick.

If the cleric was a fighter or a paladin, he wouldn't have fell on the first round and the team would probably have won despite the bad start. My lvl 1 human fighter for example had Ref 14, AC 19 and 34 hp. He wouldn't have been happy getting hit for 24 hp but he'd have used second wind, his action point and probably hit the beetle with his encounter power (+8 VS AC 13, 2D10+4, shift the warlock two square back). The warlock would have been able to stand outside of blast range, curse and attack the beetle with his own encounter power (Say witch fire, +4 VS Reflex 12, 3D6+4 and -4 to attack untul next round) perhaps use his own action point to attack again. Fair chance that they kill a beetle on the first round. Next round they probably can't breath and at any rate AC is 21 and ref 16 against +4 attacks or +5 attacks. The fighter will surely survive another round and if things look bad, you pull out your dailies.

Only on a large team can you live without a defender if you have several secondary tanks including lots of leader (Still not an optimumk team, mind you).

 

[sinecure]

This is so incredibly frustrating. I feel like the only one here who actually plays D&D.

Combat doesn't start with Initiative. Miniatures games do. D&D is not a miniatures game. Don't let 4E fool you.

Think before you get into combat. Sheesh.

 

[James McMurray]

This is so incredibly frustrating. I feel like the only one here who actually plays D&D.

Combat doesn't start with Initiative. Miniatures games do. D&D is not a miniatures game. Don't let 4E fool you.

Think before you get into combat. Sheesh.

Please point to how the PCs failed to think. Given that all we know is the combat, your attempts at belittling their out of combat performance is kinda laughable.

 

[The Little Raven]

I feel like the only one here who actually plays D&D.

It's hard to see other people when you're solely focused on the "one true way."

 

[RefinedBean]

This is so incredibly frustrating. I feel like the only one here who actually plays D&D.

Combat doesn't start with Initiative. Miniatures games do. D&D is not a miniatures game. Don't let 4E fool you.

Think before you get into combat. Sheesh.

Condescend much?

We can disambiguate "combat" to "The period of time where all movement and actions are determined through initiative order, and violence ensues" and there we go.

I know what you're trying to say, but given we don't know the initial set up of the encounter, the prelude, the context, etc...we go with what's given to us.

 

[TheNovaLord]

coincidentally the first encounter in my new campaign was 5 fire beetles against 4 party members starting at a range of 15 or so

I missed with both spray attacks i used and the party wiped the floor with them

BUT
-3 were minion beetles only
-the beetles were coming out a hole and came out one or two at a time each round (to keep it dynamic)

i think the party above would have coped if 1 beetle were a minion

 

[Jhaelen]

This is so incredibly frustrating. I feel like the only one here who actually plays D&D.

You're totally right. You're obviously the only person who plays D&D the way it should be played.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

coincidentally the first encounter in my new campaign was 5 fire beetles against 4 party members starting at a range of 15 or so

I missed with both spray attacks i used and the party wiped the floor with them

BUT
-3 were minion beetles only
-the beetles were coming out a hole and came out one or two at a time each round (to keep it dynamic)

i think the party above would have coped if 1 beetle were a minion

Two beetle ; 200XP
3 minion ; presumably 75xp but I can 't be sure since must have made them up.

A moderate challenge for 4 PC ; 400xp

Of course they mopped the floor with that encounter.

 

[sinecure]

You're totally right. You're obviously the only person who plays D&D the way it should be played.

No. I'm the only one here who doesn't play beginner D&D Hack & Slash.

And I don't need to be told what lead up to the combat. If the group didn't run away from a combat they couldn't handle, then they failed when they decided to fight it.

And if they chose to fight a combat they could overcome, and then still failed due to poor tactics, then it was still the players who need to improve, right?

The second scenario isn't what we are discussing here, is it? No. The players are learning. They don't know how to win yet. If they die because they didn't know what was going on, then they now know what failure in a deadly situation means. No combat is a gimme. And death in D&D is rarely accidental.

The DM fudged lethality out of the game anyways, so why is anyone complaining? Is he OP complaining that they should have died and the DM failed in his or her duty? I would. Or if they didn't want lethality in their games the game world shouldn't have monsters that could ever beat the PCs.

 

[James McMurray]

How does "lost initiative, went uncoscious" equate to "didn't run away from combat they couldn't handle, so failed when they chose to fight it?"

Don't worry though, I'm sure you're every bit as cool in real life as you are on the internet