Unpopular opinions go here

[Tony Vargas]

Do you think any problem that might crop up in RPGs needs to be too complicated to explain in plain language?

TBF, that's why we have GNS.

 

[Micah Sweet]

TBF, that's why we have GNS.

I like the idea of a deep examination of gaming styles, but I can't stand the execution of GNS, or especially how assumed it is as "the" model.

 

[overgeeked]

GNS is literally the worst. Kids with crayons could come up with better theories. The video game industry is right there and has far better design theory, especially the MDA framework.

 

[Jd Smith1]

You're skipping over the Monty Python levels of absurdity this inevitably entails. The game can't progress while the players keep killing themselves. I don't want to sit there and wait while the min-maxers find inventive ways to kill off their own characters so they get to roll another set of stats. Lather, rinse, repeat until they land on a set that's acceptable to them...20-30 minutes later.

Or, have them all roll characters in the session 0 and let them just keep rolling until they get what they want. At that point, why bother?

Just skip it. Give them a standard array and wash your hands of the whole thing.

Better still, dump the players, and recruit gamers worth spending time with.

 

[Reynard]

GNS is literally the worst. Kids with crayons could come up with better theories. The video game industry is right there and has far better design theory, especially the MDA framework.

This take is hotter than ghost pepper wings at Moe's.

 

[Hussar]

Well, people keep appealing to popularity as if means something beyond how much money a company can make, and somehow actually means one thing is better than another because more people like it.

Also, I'm open to being pleasantly surprised.

Meh. Sorry, games are never meant to be frozen in amber. Each game a masterpiece that must never be spoiled or touched by a single new idea.

Yeah, no thanks. If that were true, we'd still be playing OD&D. Actually, that's not true. If what you are saying was true, then D&D would have died a LONG time ago.

The idea that after a bajillion play hours, not a single change can ever be made that might improve the game is mind bogglingly ridiculous. Games evolve. It happens. Pretending that it's only ever about money or appeals to popularity is an enormous straw man.

But, here's the really good thing. They can never take away your books. If you want to keep playing an unchanged version of a game, there is absolutely nothing stopping you. Lots of people do. Lots of people stick with one version of the game that really suits them and that's perfectly fine. But insisting that everyone MUST NOT EVER change the game that you like and anyone who wants a change should just go play another game is not a good thing.

 

[overgeeked]

Pretending that it's only ever about money or appeals to popularity is an enormous straw man.

While I agree with most of what you’re saying, it’s demonstrably true that 5E is an appeal to popularity from start to finish. The D&D Next playtest and surveys. The 2024 playtest and surveys. The popularity % threshold to be acceptable design. They’re literally designing the game to be as popular as possible. And making money? That’s the only reason D&D exists. If it did not make money the company that owned it would go under and be bought out. Oh, wait…

 

[Guest 7042500]

No, before the game starts you've got a player already showing unwillingness to play the game as presented. Solution: recruit another player.

Marry me.

 

[Lanefan]

Marry me.

Sorry, taken.

 

[Hussar]

While I agree with most of what you’re saying, it’s demonstrably true that 5E is an appeal to popularity from start to finish. The D&D Next playtest and surveys. The 2024 playtest and surveys. The popularity % threshold to be acceptable design. They’re literally designing the game to be as popular as possible. And making money? That’s the only reason D&D exists. If it did not make money the company that owned it would go under and be bought out. Oh, wait…

That's true of any game though. Or, realistically, any product. Not too many companies, or at least ones that want to stay in business, make products that their consumers don't like. And, as much as I like 4e, it's pretty clear that they went too far in the down the road of not listening to the fandom.

I could see the argument that they've gone too far listening to fans, but, meh. They're also quite willing to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks. In the past, that was done by continuously banging out endless books. Which just meant that loads of material was barely used. The whole Unearthed Arcana approach is a way to build a game that you know that the majority of people are actually going to play.

Is that "designing to be as popular as possible"? I guess so. But, again, what's the point of having endless books that only a tiny sliver of the fandom plays? That's what DM's Guild is for. Or the bajillion 3rd party publishers. Let them chase those niche markets while WotC caters to the mainstream of the fandom. Seems like a pretty good system to me.