Unstoppable Undead

[Starbuck_II]

Holy Cow. You guys are awesome. Thanks to everyone for all of your replies and I should have given you guys more information.

The party consists of my 8th level Lupin ranger, an 8th level half-elf cleric, a level 7 dwarf fighter, a level 6 half-orc fighter, a 6th level dwarf fighter, a 6th level feral half-dragon fighter, a 6th level high elf fighter, and a 6th level human fighter.

We are playing 3.5 but we were playing with 2e rules for about a year. When we switched the DM converted the Revenants with his own homebrew format. They do have Regeneration and not Fast Healing, because in 2e they had Regeneration and the DM said he doesn't care that Undead aren't allowed to have Regeneration in 3.5. The problem isn't reducing them to 0 hitpoints, it is turning off their regeneration.

He introduced them in our 2e campaign because they were immune to turning and there was an undead encounter where our cleric destroyed a bunch of skeletons. He didn't like that so he found undead that the cleric couldn't destroy.

We tried acid and fire but they didn't work so we just hacked at them until we felt a sufficient amount of damage and hightailed it.

There are a few ways to stop regeneration:
1) Graymantle spell (Spell Compendruim)
2) Trollbane (a alchemy product without a save) pg 37 Dungeonscape
3) Whatever specific way the creature lists.

 

[CuRoi]

Two Sides to the Coin Perhaps?

Well, after reading back through the thread, I've got to say I think I see the problem. I am however only getting your side of it so this could be a bit off.

You said:

"He introduced them in our 2e campaign because they were immune to turning and there was an undead encounter where our cleric destroyed a bunch of skeletons. He didn't like that so he found undead that the cleric couldn't destroy."

He didn't find them in a 3e book somewhere - he made them sort of to his own specs. And it seems he made them specifically to thwart player abilities.

"And then there is the guy playing the Feral Half-Dragon...ugh. ECL 6 ACL 2. He dies quickly and that's because the DM knows he has a lot fewer hitpoints."

It sounds like you are saying the DM targets this player because he has lower hit points?

You also mention it is a low magic game and the DM refused to let you play Arcane casters and Druids (I could see making some adjustments to the Druid class frankly). I'm all for low magic games - I run them all the time. However, I don't then create challenges that specifically require high level magic to solve without giving the players some option.

It is possible you are having a common problem - it's the "us versus him" scenario where the DM and players are having a competitive, antagonistic sort of game. The DM always wins this of course, but essentially ruins the game for everyone else. A DM's role is definitely to challenge players, but not simply so the DM can "win" the game. The DM challenges players so you guys can create a fun, collaborative story together.

Now, from the DM's side -

Of course, Revanent's don't just run around killing everyone. They kill for a purpose. They hunt down their killer to exact revenge. Maybe you guys were running amok in the campaign and the DM decided to teach you a lesson? I had to blow some dust off my Fiend Folio but, I recall quite a bit about this particular undead. (In 3.5 it would be a template and a rather nasty one at that...)

They are pretty much immune to everything. It is immune to magical and non-magical weapons, turning, holy water, etc and immune to acids, and gases. The only "sure way to kill it" is to reduce it to ashes through fire, which your DM seems have made into a non-option.

So maybe the DM is trying to tell you something and maybe he is deliberately presenting a scenario you can't win through slicing stuff up? You've got to figure out why the thign is after you, what you did wrong and make some sort of restitution or something.

Good news is, it will eventually (after 3-6 months) decompose. I'd suggest a brief vacation to a different plane (assuming the creature was not a former spell caster because it will keep its class abilities and could possibly follow you.)

That all fails, instead of buying a portable hole, put those funds in the hands of a trustworthy cleric outside the party. Commit suicide in sight of the creature, it will go away, and then have the cleric Raise you...or convince the creature you are dead...either way, it should back off.

 

[SeamusRedfern]

He doesn't disallow magick users but he only likes magick that serves his ability to mess with the party. He did not like it when the cleric would cast things like heat or chill metal on the swords of the Orc leader calling it a cheap trick and after the first time the cleric used call lightning we never saw a single cloud again.(because in 2e for the spell to work you needed a cloud in the sky)

While we were using 2e rules the campaign mostly dealt with Garagos(a Forgotten Realms deity) challenging Tempus(another Forgotten Realms deity) for his seat of God of War. The clergy of Garagos created Revenants in an abandoned prison. They were affixed with magickal goggles that made them believe anyone they looked at to be the person that killed them. I took my party in, we thought we destroyed the facility, I killed Garagos's chosen one while the rest of my party lay decapitated from his vorpal sword that turned to dust. Then we killed Garagos's Avatar which spawned after I killed the chosen one. We thought we weren't going to see Revenant again but we were wrong. Once we switched over to 3.5 he decided to give them a new look.

 

[SeamusRedfern]

An off-topic question: Do spells that have a casting time of Swift Action provoke AoO?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

He doesn't disallow magick users but he only likes magick that serves his ability to mess with the party. He did not like it when the cleric would cast things like heat or chill metal on the swords of the Orc leader calling it a cheap trick and after the first time the cleric used call lightning we never saw a single cloud again.(because in 2e for the spell to work you needed a cloud in the sky)

That's not cheap, that's tactics using the spells for their intended purpose. I suspect that if any if his precious encounters got wrecked by Entangle, all of your future adventures would be in urban or desert settings.

This sounds like an immature DM with control issues. It's like he sees you as his little puppets and wants you to dance...

 

[SeamusRedfern]

When the Cleric used the spell, the Orc who was a blood-lusting, battlerager immediately dropped his swords before spell could deal damage. The Cleric said if he had truly been raging then why did he drop his swords? But that's a different debate all together.

The DM used Charm spells with no saving throws to turn my Furry Ranger into his own way to TPK, although he never got the chance. Once I killed 3 or 4 of my party members the rest of them would subdue me.

 

[kitcik]

Back to my original post...

You kill the undead with cheese, since the DM is cheesing them up.

You kill the DM with a sword, like a real man.1





1 I hereby disclaim advocating actual violence toward the DM. But you did ask how to kill "them" and I just assumed that would include any DM that would pull something like that...

I took a shot or two after posting this, but the more I read on this thread the more I think it applies. Especially the second part.

When the suggestion he likes best is "buy a portable hole and fill it with holy water" there is something wrong with the campaign. When the DM thinks he has to give extra abilities to undead to challenge a party consisting of 1 cleric and 5 fighters, there is something wrong with the DM.

 

[anest1s]

When the Cleric used the spell, the Orc who was a blood-lusting, battlerager immediately dropped his swords before spell could deal damage. The Cleric said if he had truly been raging then why did he drop his swords? But that's a different debate all together.

The DM used Charm spells with no saving throws to turn my Furry Ranger into his own way to TPK, although he never got the chance. Once I killed 3 or 4 of my party members the rest of them would subdue me.

You should really buy a wand of Charm Person. No saving throws for enchantments cant be wise
Next time someone dies, make a wizard. Use everything you have tasted against him


...Or save yourself time and find an other DM

 

[TanisFrey]

An off-topic question: Do spells that have a casting time of Swift Action provoke AoO?

Yes. Casting any spell or using a spell-like ability provokes an AoO. Even if you cast a stilled, silenced spell by using the silent and still spell metamagic feats.

A spell with a swift action casting does let you cast 2 spells in that round. One is a swift action the other is a standard action.

 

[CuRoi]

He doesn't disallow magick users but he only likes magick that serves his ability to mess with the party. He did not like it when the cleric would cast things like heat or chill metal on the swords of the Orc leader calling it a cheap trick and after the first time the cleric used call lightning we never saw a single cloud again.(because in 2e for the spell to work you needed a cloud in the sky).

Well, even if I'm getting only half the story, I can tell there is plenty of antagonism versus the DM. The "us versus him" scenario I mentioned earlier is definitely in full force IMO.

Problem, is it will only get worse - especially since you switched to 3e and the DM is less familair with what is a more comprehensive (not necessarily less complicated) ruleset. His discomfort will only increase and he will continue to arbitrarily remove things he doesn't quite understand from play.

Coming here and asking some potentially very experienced players how to solve the problem is likely to make things worse for the campaign. The DM may just overreact to any sound tactical advice given here.

In general, the DM sounds kind of creative and capable of putting together some kind of story, so I would suggest it is worth sitting down as a group and talking with him about the issues. Tell him what you like and what you don't like - preferably without turning it into a yelling match.

If he's a good DM he will be able to use the info constructively. If not - as mentioned, find a new DM. I'm a pretty big fan of the "well if you hate the game, run your own game" and you can learn from mistakes made in the past (mainly cause thats what got me into DMing).

The other explanation is the DM is your brother (or other close relative) and you guys just enjoy pummelling each other, heh.