D&D 5E Until end of next turn vs Save Ends

[sfedi]

I'm still bothered by tha fact that ueont durations (and the like) are generally cheaper and sometimes outright better than save ends.

One simple house rules:

Whenever you grant a saving throw to an ally, he can use it to end a condition that ends before the start/end of someone's turn.

Maybe it should only apply to certain conditions or those imposed by enemies.

But you get the idea.

What do you think? Is this something needed?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Meh. Save ends has always the potential to be stronger than ueont. Toss a save penalty or two in there and the difference is pretty stark, or a power with a couple of fail and it gets worse conditions.

On the other hand ueont allows a power to be quite reliable in its effectiveness. I KNOW if I give such a duration to a monster power that is say encounter stun ueont how much impact it will have on the action economy of the party. Same goes for PC powers. If they can be easily ended ahead of time, then ueont becomes pretty weak, especially at paragon and up when PCs have a LOT of ways to grant saves.

I agree that ueont is not clearly weaker than save ends, but it IS more predictable and I find that to be nice. In the grand scheme of things I think ueont is overall weaker if you tot up the results over time. On a case-by-case basis though its harder to say.

Anyway, for the most part, I don't think you'll create big problems if you allowed granted saves to work for both. However there may well be specific monsters that it will cause problems for. Things who's shtick is say dazing a PC reliably for a round so it or another monster can reliably pull off some combo. There are a pretty fair number of those.

 

[Stalker0]

Meh. Save ends has always the potential to be stronger than ueont. Toss a save penalty or two in there and the difference is pretty stark, or a power with a couple of fail and it gets worse conditions.

I'll disagree, I do think end of next turn effects are often more powerful than save ends.

A couple of reasons:

1) UEONT allows the person using the power to get an extra round of benefit. Save Ends only allows it if the monster fails there save, and they pass more often than not.

2) Lots of monsters have save bonuses, and players often have lots of ways to get extra saves. This is the big one to me, the save math of 55% saving is actually a bit off when you account for these factors.


In my game, I allows hero points (my version of action points) to grant an immediate save, and that save can end an effect normally. Its been a mixed bag, the party likes the get out of jail free cards, but have been chaffing watching elite and solo monsters get out of effects that normally would last the fight.


I think your idea is a fine one to try.