Upper Krust, where are you? [Immortal's Handbook]

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Simon!

Hi Craig - well, I'll see what you come up with in the IH.

Okay.

My concept of Doomstar was always somewhat 'eggshell armed with hammer' - he can do ridiculous amounts of damage but is not invulnerable.

Well he did beat Anu in one round on his home plane!

Incidently I have the 'double hit points on your home realm' (not plane) rule in effect - explained in the IH.

I'm not sure how best to model this in 3e. 519th level in 3e seems a lot more powerful than in 1e, for instance.

Well he does convert (officially) to 346th. Although thats still pretty tough.

With a natural CON of 25 (before items) Doomstar would have 3288hp.

I anticipate a Pantheon Head (before items) will average about 2000hp (4000hp in their home plane)

Incidently I advocate Pantheon Heads having up to 80 levels rather than the 70 in D&Dg.

It may also be appropriate to give Doomstar negative levels for creating some of his magic items, since the XP costs are likely to be high.

Thrin would be 40th level if you apply the official multiclass conversion and then the CR limiter on top,

So Thrin loses out more by virtue of being converted twice!? I don't see that making sense.

On levels alone (not power) Thrin was second toughest deity in Legends & Lore. Using the official conversion method this balance is pretty much maintained.

I agree it may be too low, although as a lesser god Thrin was never the most powerful deity around - many greater gods were more powerful in a straight fight,

Many!? Thor; Zeus; Odin; Mabelode...maybe Surtur...allegedly Vanya.

mostly due to divine weapons doing lots of d10s damage (Thor at 10d10+ bonuses the ultimate example).

Higher rank war deities will do more damage with Salient Divine Abilities like Divine Weapon Specialisation.

Thor typically does more damage now than in 1st Ed. even though Mjolnir only delivers 4d8 base damage (I say 4d6 as it happens, by virtue of it being 2 tons)

I still think some kind of level conversion for 20+ is needed, although the one I used may be too harsh. Perhaps 1:2 for levels 21-60, 1:3 for levels 61-120, 1:4 for levels 121-200 etc would be better.

The problem as I see it is that you are changing the rules just to fit Doomstar. Instead of changing Doomstar just to fit the rules.

Sort of like bringing the mountain to Mohammed...etc.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Gez mate!

For the release date... Don't hold your breath, it's not going to be anytime soon.

First, WotC needs to open, read, match, and considerate 10000+ submissions.

Then, their intern will be able to go on to his first and foremost mission: works on the SRD. Since monsters and spells still aren't in (psionic powers description aren't even in the draft!), and given the hi speed of WotC for this kind of thing, we can expect the SRD to be finalised with the three core books and the psi ones in the early 2003.

Then maybe they'll thought about convincing the "people with forked hair" at WotC and Hasbro that adding ELH and D&Dg to the SRD won't cause a bankrupcy nor even a little money loss.

And that's supposing they don't begin their SRD additions by some splatbook/Dragon Mag/FRCS/d20 modern/non-copyrighted parts of SW, WoT, etc.

I think the IH will be legaly able to be published next July, assuming the intern don't get fired.

Don't frighten me like that mate!

Think positive!

 

[S'mon]

Well he does convert (officially) to 346th. Although thats still pretty tough.

Where do you get 346th from, given that he was single-classed 519th in 1e?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Simon!

Where do you get 346th from, given that he was single-classed 519th in 1e?

You are forgetting that he was also a master Psionicist.

In 3rd Ed. that means he should have Psion levels.

I divided his levels (approx.) in two - to represent the Wiz/Psi split...

...and then divided his secondary class by three (as per WotC conversion rules).

Then I simply reassigned a 50/50 split.

 

[Gez]

Hi Gez mate!



Don't frighten me like that mate!

Think positive!

Sorry, I let my natural pessimism appears once again.

Bah ! In such a worst case scenario, you could try to paraphrase and rename things so that it's compatible with D&Dg without ever referencing it, no ?

You introduce concepts such as "Special Divine Abilities" (with some clones of D&Dg's SDA phrased and named differently) and "Divine Rating"; in two or three pages most of it could be condensed. That would be far from exhaustive, but who care ? People would know to use D&Dg even if it's never referenced. Only the stuff from D&Dg that would actually be used in an example deity would be paraphrased.

That would be a bit hypocritic, but hypcrisy is how mankind succeed in getting along without too much feuds.


On a more technical note, how will portfolios correlate with DR, SDA and domains ?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Gez mate!

Sorry, I let my natural pessimism appears once again.

Don't let it happen again!

Bah ! In such a worst case scenario, you could try to paraphrase and rename things so that it's compatible with D&Dg without ever referencing it, no ?

I probably (?) wouldn't need D&Dg to enter the SRD before I could release the Magic; Monster or Realm/Adventure sections!? Although for the sake of continuity I really need the Worship Rules released first.

However, it would be a major pain in the butt to rework the Divinity parts of the Worship section...again.

That said, I have reworked (for the better obviously), a number of minor mechanics from D&Dg (about a dozen SDAs etc.).

I also suggest a few changes to the Greater God class in particular.

I am toying with the idea of suggesting all deities in D&Dg be reduced 3 Divine Ranks except the 'true' Greater Gods...?

I don't like the idea of non-pantheon heads being Greater Gods (with the possible exceptions of Boccob, Pelor and Nerull).

I mean what was the point of introducing the Intermediate God class in the first place if it wasn't to seperate the 'true' Greater Gods (Pantheon Heads) from merely 'Gods'!?

You introduce concepts such as "Special Divine Abilities" (with some clones of D&Dg's SDA phrased and named differently)

True, but its going to be a total chore redoing the basics of the 100 SDAs they have in the book. Not something I want to do.

and "Divine Rating"; in two or three pages most of it could be condensed. That would be far from exhaustive, but who care ?

Divine Rank could easily be done away with - changing it for Divine Status.

People would know to use D&Dg even if it's never referenced. Only the stuff from D&Dg that would actually be used in an example deity would be paraphrased.

That would be a bit hypocritic, but hypcrisy is how mankind succeed in getting along without too much feuds.

I wouldn't be happy making such changes though.

On a more technical note, how will portfolios correlate with DR, SDA and domains ?

Portfolios are now more closely tied with Domains.

 

[Anubis]

What about the fact that since Deities and Demigods and the Epic Level Handbook aren't true Core Rulebooks, they may not even ever appear in the SRD?

I have a bad feeling that they won't show up, ever, in the SRD.

Considering how slow things have been getting ito the SRD, that makes it highly unlikely to see the Immortal's Handbook anytime in the next two or three years . . .

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Anubis mate!

What about the fact that since Deities and Demigods and the Epic Level Handbook aren't true Core Rulebooks, they may not even ever appear in the SRD?

Well I have been told by WotC management that they will!

Obviously the Submission contest has thrown an unorthodox element into the WotC schedule. Otherwise I believe we would have seen D&Dg in the SRD by now.

I have a bad feeling that they won't show up, ever, in the SRD.

I don't entertain negative thoughts!

...see what you have started Gez...

Considering how slow things have been getting ito the SRD, that makes it highly unlikely to see the Immortal's Handbook anytime in the next two or three years . . .

Have a little faith Anubis!

 

[poilbrun]

Hi U_K, hope you're doing well!

Don't you consider doing as you once thought of doing: publishing it without reference to D&Dg and then, once D&Dg enters the SRD, publish an update to make both books compatible? That would solve the problem of having to wait for D&Dg to enter the SRD, and it might get you some feedback and enable you to tweak some things before working on the final version that would be sent to prints...

Anyway, I'm pretty eager to see the book, so I cross my fingers that D&Dg will enter the SRD soon...

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi U_K, hope you're doing well!

Hi poil brun mate!

Any chance you will be making it to Gencon UK mate?

Almost certainly be the first public glimpse of the IH - even though I may not be able to sell it.

Don't you consider doing as you once thought of doing: publishing it without reference to D&Dg and then, once D&Dg enters the SRD, publish an update to make both books compatible?

If I thought D&Dg wasn't going to enter the SRD sometime in the next 3 months I might consider such a move.

That would solve the problem of having to wait for D&Dg to enter the SRD, and it might get you some feedback and enable you to tweak some things before working on the final version that would be sent to prints...

The only obstacle I can see (other than a bit of terminology) are the Divinity Templates and Salient Divine Abilities.

SDAs would be the major annoyance (since no matter what you do it could end up like you were copying them) - though to be honest the more I think about it the more I could probably pull it off.

A lot of my own ideas have changed since D&Dg came out, not because of what was in that book, but rather just that I have had a few months extra to work on things.

The actual worship points mechanics are now only two pages long (and half of that is examples) - its that simple! Naturally there is a lot more enabling you to flesh out 'Faiths' in as much detail as your campaign requires. But it goes some way to showing how quick and easy things are.

Anyway, I'm pretty eager to see the book, so I cross my fingers that D&Dg will enter the SRD soon...

Thanks mate!