Upper Krust, where are you? [Immortal's Handbook]

[Anubis]

A 200th-level Fighter WITH NO MAGIC ITEMS could defeat a Prismatic Great Wyrm IN ONE HIT.

With all do respect, with that statement, I now believe you have lost your grip on reality.

The ONLY way ANY Level 200 character with NO magic items could EVER kill a Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon in a SINGLE hit would be to use the Intant Kill variant rule, which requires rolling two 20s in a row and then hitting on a third roll. A Level 200 Fighter would have only a 0.2375% chance of pulling it off, so your statement is completely invalidated.

The system works on averages. Using your system that limits the power of magical items by an ABSOLUTE, Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragons are pretty much invincible to *most* PCs because bypassing the damage reduction would be nigh impossible, although Sacred Fists and Monks could do it at some point. My point is, an average party would never be able to get past the damage reduction.

Yet you say that the Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon would go down in a single hit? What are you smoking?

As for limiting items, I have already proposed that better versions of Efficient Item Creation be made for higher levels. I think that can take care of the costs of creating items.

Look, plain and simple, the ONLY way the game could balance if you take away all items that cost more than a certain amount is to create an insane number of feats that emulate what those magical items could do. I see no such things being created, however, which makes me wonder how much thought you have put into this . . .

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: newbie

upper_krust:

hi there epote mate - nice to meet you!

i have some quetions for you.

Sure, fire away!

the probably have being answered so if you can give me links or reply.

Thats okay; I have probably forgotten where I last answered them anyway!

i have been waching you here and in the wizards forum,

You been spying on me then?

You should have said hello earlier!

and i have a huge question, what the hell does your nick name means!?

It was bestowed upon me by some of my friends; it corresponds to my superiority complex and delusions of grandeur* - probably stems from a result of playing a deity character for over fifteen years.

*that I often play up - just for fun.

and second when is immortals handbook coming out (just a rough estimate since i know that deities and demigods have being publishes some time now)

Deities & Demigods has been available for over five months now - but I am still waiting for it to enter the System Reference Document.

Its in the lap of the gods at the moment.

...or rather Wizards of the Coast.

what format will it be,

Initially broken into four pdfs; then a single hardcover product.

and how much will it cost

Comparable to other pdfs and hardcovers of a similar page size.

thanx in advance mate,

No problems. Anytime mate!

keep up your excelent work

Thanks! I appreciate the support.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Xeriar mate!

What Great Wyrm, what -anything- of such intelligence is going to be vulnerable to critical hits at that point?

The Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon in the book for one.

 

[epote]

prismatic dragon

You been spying on me then?

You should have said hello earlier!

i believe i have

It was bestowed upon me by some of my friends; it corresponds to my superiority complex and delusions of grandeur* - probably stems from a result of playing a deity character for over fifteen years.

*that I often play up - just for fun.

my kind of guy!!

well im very excited about the book, i remember you talking about your immortal rules even before you had the idea about put in it on paper. if worse is to come lets make a new company and buy wizards so you can publish it

oh yes one more, will it come hard cover to greece i know its a crazy question but hell i gotta ask

With all do respect, with that statement, I now believe you have lost your grip on reality.

The ONLY way ANY Level 200 character with NO magic items could EVER kill a Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon in a SINGLE hit would be to use the Intant Kill variant rule, which requires rolling two 20s in a row and then hitting on a third roll. A Level 200 Fighter would have only a 0.2375% chance of pulling it off, so your statement is completely invalidated.

well i guess uber_krust could have answered this but lets see if he agrees with me. btw i really dont know krust's rules for leveling up.

a prismatic dragon has 60/+15 DR a 200 level fighter would have a ridiculosly high strength an bonus damage. he could kill it with his fists, he would substract 60 from each hit, so what in +300, 60 is nothing

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Anubis mate!

With all do respect, with that statement, I now believe you have lost your grip on reality.

...but didn't you say reality has no place in D&D!?

The ONLY way ANY Level 200 character with NO magic items could EVER kill a Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon in a SINGLE hit would be to use the Intant Kill variant rule, which requires rolling two 20s in a row and then hitting on a third roll. A Level 200 Fighter would have only a 0.2375% chance of pulling it off, so your statement is completely invalidated.

I love the way you use upper case 'ONLY' and 'EVER'. How can you be so certain...yet still so wrong!?

Are you ready for todays edification? If so then I'll begin...

Out of the 167 (or so) Feats available you need Power Attack; Power Critical and Devastating Critical (naturally with all prereqs) . Hit, and the opponent has to make a save with a DC of 110+STR Bonus (on average lets say about 130).

The attack is virtually a guaranteed to hit; critical and deliver at least 61 damage - thats not counting the fact that you could have easily taken the Penetrate Damage Reduction Feat ten times over. Or buffed your strength up considerably. Or used Power Attack. Or stacked the Epic Prowess feat dozens of times and used even more on the Power Attack. Or any of the myriad other options.

You could also take the Damage Reduction; Spell Resistance and Fast Healing Feats forty times each just for fun.

DR 120/-
SR 80
FH 120

Any way you slice it the end result is a dead Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon.

Do you concede the point!?

The system works on averages. Using your system that limits the power of magical items by an ABSOLUTE, Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragons are pretty much invincible to *most* PCs because bypassing the damage reduction would be nigh impossible, although Sacred Fists and Monks could do it at some point. My point is, an average party would never be able to get past the damage reduction.

LOL!

See above.

Yet you say that the Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon would go down in a single hit? What are you smoking?

Actually I'm not smoking, I'm cooking. Can you smell it!?

As for limiting items, I have already proposed that better versions of Efficient Item Creation be made for higher levels. I think that can take care of the costs of creating items.

Probably makes more sense to use the epic application (Quick Creation) of the Craft skill.

Look, plain and simple, the ONLY way the game could balance if you take away all items that cost more than a certain amount is to create an insane number of feats that emulate what those magical items could do. I see no such things being created, however, which makes me wonder how much thought you have put into this . . .

Seemingly more thought than you put into these comments.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: prismatic dragon

Hello again epote mate!

i believe i have

I meant earlier as in months/years ago.

my kind of guy!!

I appreciate the love!

well im very excited about the book, i remember you talking about your immortal rules even before you had the idea about put in it on paper.

You've been around that long eh! Wow!

Yeah, I remember when I posted the entire Worship Points System here on these boards (must be two years ago now*). It was only about the equivalent of three or four pages of text back then. Ideas just seemed to snowball for about six months until the design called for 200+ pages of material.

*Shows what a procrastinating doofus I am if its taken me this long!

if worse is to come lets make a new company and buy wizards so you can publish it

Absolutely. If there are any rich lurkers out there who want to help publish it. Or if anyone personally knows H.R.Giger or Wayne Barlowe etc.

oh yes one more, will it come hard cover to greece - i know its a crazy question but hell i gotta ask

Well I'm not familiar with the disposition of roleplaying game distribution in the Mediterranean I must be honest. I can only assume it will be 'as available' as any other d20 product...?

btw i really dont know krust's rules for leveling up.

Not sure what you mean mate?

well i guess uber_krust could have answered this but lets see if he agrees with me.

a prismatic dragon has 60/+15 DR a 200 level fighter would have a ridiculosly high strength an bonus damage. he could kill it with his fists, he would substract 60 from each hit, so what in +300, 60 is nothing

There are at least a dozen different ways to pimp slap the Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon when you are 200th-level and sans magic items.

 

[Xeriar]

Hi Xeriar mate!

The Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon in the book for one.

Upper Krust, I have a serious problem with the idea of something supposedly smarter than the group of us combined not being aware of the tactics that could be used against it.

A Prismatic dragon of that level is going to have the spells and items necessary to deal with those kinds of problems, and various Sunder feats, etc.

The effect you are referring to is the Power Critical combined with the Devastating critical feat, right? It can't even work with a bow, so he needs a close range weapon, how is he going to ever get that close without magic items?

 

[epote]

upper_kase

I meant earlier as in months/years ago.

if i had would you remember it? i most certainly did, but since neither you or me remember it it never took place its all a big messy mater of plane of refference i tell ya!

You've been around that long eh! Wow!

Yeah, I remember when I posted the entire Worship Points System here on these boards (must be two years ago now*). It was only about the equivalent of three or four pages of text back then. Ideas just seemed to snowball for about six months until the design called for 200+ pages of material.

*Shows what a procrastinating doofus I am if its taken me this long!

i sure do remember it actually it was the first text i ever read in this forum, i am an avid reader ever since i hope i know become an avid contributor as well at the time i thought wizards of the coast would be foolish not using such a marvelous system. now i dont think it, i am sure of it

Well I'm not familiar with the disposition of roleplaying game distribution in the Mediterranean I must be honest. I can only assume it will be 'as available' as any other d20 product...?

lol! mate its greece, it probably would be published in ruanda first for both its role players to buy btw what publisher will publish you?

Not sure what you mean mate?

actually it cleared up later, i thought you used another system of leveling for epic levels, but you dont so its cool

There are at least a dozen different ways to pimp slap the Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon when you are 200th-level and sans magic items.

hell yeah! it was late at the time and was bored to figure oute everything, but i did later and an 130 streangth is very very reasonable (actually an 180 is reasonable also), along with an incredible amount of hit points. and still having feats to spare

 

[poilbrun]

Re: upper_kase

We couldn't be happier and are looking to expand the license not contract it. Thus when d20 Modern releases in November it will be SRDed immediately and a number of companies will have material and/or settings to support it. In addition, we hope to have the PH, DMG, MM and PsiHB all finalized in the SRD by November and then we will likely add another cap system book (we are still taking suggestions).

Originally posted in this thread : http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27321
It seems we'll have to wait a little before seeing the IH...

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Xeriar mate!

Upper Krust, I have a serious problem with the idea of something supposedly smarter than the group of us combined not being aware of the tactics that could be used against it.

I doubt a dragon would consider such an opponent a threat (you can't detect levels after all). An attacker/defender without magic items would probably lull it into a false sense of security; at least for one round...which is all thats needed.

That said epic dragon ability scores are ridiculous: more intelligent than Thoth; wiser than Odin; more charismatic than Aphrodite...I don't think so.

A Prismatic dragon of that level is going to have the spells and items necessary to deal with those kinds of problems, and various Sunder feats, etc.

Then have it try and deal with him.

The effect you are referring to is the Power Critical combined with the Devastating critical feat, right? It can't even work with a bow, so he needs a close range weapon, how is he going to ever get that close without magic items?

He only needs to melee to kill it with one hit.

Regardless, he is either still going to kill it or its going to fly away. I don't think the dragon could do more than fluke a victory in this instance.

...and remember this is all without ANY magic items!