D&D 5E Use of Investigation

[TheCosmicKid]

Just a little question: how do you use the Investigation skill in your games? I've been using it as an analog of 3E Search, finding hidden traps and doors and such. Per the PHB, that's covered by Perception, but Perception is already a really good skill, and Investigation doesn't seem to do much. Thoughts?

 

[Minigiant]

Intelligence (Investigation) is for Active search for things you don't know are there or can't perceive without interaction.
Wisdom (Perception) is for Passive Search and for Active Search of things you can already perceive.

Basically
Perception is for searching in plain sight.
Investigation is for search in hidden view.

Like the PHB say, you can't find a key in a drawer with Perception unless you say "I open the drawer" to open the drawer.
But you can find the key with Investigation because rolling high enough "makes you open the drawer".

Also Investigation is the "logical step search".
Perception tells you that the noble's shoes are dirty.
Investigation tells you (if pointed out via Perception or interaction) that the dirt is fresh, what type of dirt it is, and that noble is a dirty liar and he did go outside during the ball..... ARREST THAT MAN AND HOLD HIM FOR FURTHER QUESTIONING!!!.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

For me, the separation of the skills of Investigation and Perception is simple:

Perception is used if the check's purpose is to resolve whether you can or cannot perceive something. Can you hear what they are talking about? Do you see any small scratches on the floor or walls? Do you smell that? and so forth.

Investigation is used if the check's purpose is to resolve the meaning of things which you can perceive. You overhear a conversation between two people that seemed innocuous, can you discern enough of the code they were speaking in to know the true topic of conversation? Are those scratches on the wall incidental, or evidence of a secret door? What is the significance of the flowery smell in this room? and so on.

There artificially appears to be some overlap because a similar result might be reached with both skills, such as finding something hidden in an office, but the methods differ (perception would rely open actually looking at everything/everywhere from different angles and hoping to spot the hidden thing while doing so, while investigation could survey the room in general and then point out the most likely hiding places - basically the difference between trying to find someone's diary by pouring all their drawers onto the floor, emptying their bookshelves, and trashing their closet, only to flip their bed and finally find it under the mattress... or walking into the room, seeing what sort of person lives in the room based on the decor/state of the room, and then going straight to the under the mattress hiding spot because it seems the most probable.

 

[iserith]

Just a little question: how do you use the Investigation skill in your games? I've been using it as an analog of 3E Search, finding hidden traps and doors and such. Per the PHB, that's covered by Perception, but Perception is already a really good skill, and Investigation doesn't seem to do much. Thoughts?

In my game, the DM calls for an Intelligence (Investigation) check when a player describes his or her character as trying to deduce what a particular clue means and the DM finds that the attempt at deduction has an uncertain outcome.


Red Creek Rufus, a beastmaster ranger, explores the ruins of a citadel once held by elves that venerated dragons.

Player: Red Creek Rufus holds his torch firmly and enters the corridor.
DM: The air is stale in this 20-foot-long corridor, which leads to another closed stone door in front of which the ubiquitous rubble of this ruin has piled. A hallway leads north but stops short in ruin. An arrow, larger than one that a human would loose from a bow is lodged into the wall next to the door you opened. What do you do?
Player: I pull that arrow out of the wall and examine it.
DM: The arrow is old and splintered from its age and the impact. Its tip is stained black.
Player: Hmm, elves wouldn't use an arrow this large. This stain might be poison. I try to deduce from what or where this arrow might have come, drawing upon years in the wilds hunting with bow and arrow.
DM (figuring the outcome is uncertain): You're no slouch with a bow, that's for sure. Let's see a DC 10 Intelligence (Investigation) check.
Player: Okay. *rolls* 12.
DM: Given its downward angle when it was lodged in the wall, it appears to have been loosed from the ceiling of the far wall. What do you do?
Player: This sounds like a trap. I look around the immediate area for any tripwires, pressure plates, or wires, staying generally exactly where I'm standing to be safe for now.
DM (figuring the outcome is uncertain): Let's see a DC 15 Wisdom (Perception) check.
Player: *rolls* 15, on the money.
DM: There are variations in the mortar and stone of the floor in the middle portion of the corridor compared to the surrounding floor - you were right to expect pressure plates.
Player: Hmm. that's about a 10-foot-square area. I could jump if it I gave it a good run, but leaping into rubble might be tricky...

 

[Sunseeker]

Depends on how the player wants to do something I suppose.

"I look for traps." Okay, use Perception.
"I poke around the magic orb for any secret functions." Okay, use investigation.

"I glance around the tavern, for any shifty types but try not to make it obvious I'm looking." Okay, use Perception, with disadvantage.
"I start asking locals about current events." Okay, how are you asking?
"I grab them by the collar and shake them until they answer." Okay, intimidation.
"I just ask them some general questions about town holidays." Okay, investigation.

I like shorter skill lists like 5E exactly because it allows each ability to be more flexible in what it covers, so as a general answer: investigation is for when players want to gather specific information about a thing (such as how it works or who dunnit) without specifically resorting to other skills (Arcana, Diplomacy, Survival, etc...)

 

[Wik]

Way I see it? Perception is something that takes an action or less. It's a quick look around. It's something you either notice right away, or you don't at all.

Investigation is something that takes a bit of time. It gets skipped over in the movie version of the game, or, worse yet, is covered by a 1980s montage.

 

[PnPgamer]

Double post

 

[PnPgamer]

Way I see it? Perception is something that takes an action or less. It's a quick look around. It's something you either notice right away, or you don't at all.

Investigation is something that takes a bit of time. It gets skipped over in the movie version of the game, or, worse yet, is covered by a 1980s montage.

So Rocky was actually training his investigation instead of athletics!

 

[DEFCON 1]

I use Perception when players are searching for any living creatures (usually ones who have stealthed and are hidden), and Investigation when they are looking for objects and inanimates (traps, secret doors and the like.)

I use Wisdom when it is a passive use of the ability (their 'danger sense'), so it's their passive perception or passive investigation for when they just happen to come upon someone or something that was originally hidden to them. I use Intelligence when they are making active attempts to look for someone / something (when they say 'I know that elf is out there somewhere, I'm trying to see if I can spot him' - that's an INT (Perception) check.)

I have always felt the use of Investigation strictly for "interpreting clues" was such a small function of the skill that I wanted to give it more heft and take some of it away from the Perception "super-skill". This of course only really works because I use the variant rule of not demarcating each skill specifically to one ability score. I ask for the ability check, and the player asks if any particular skill of theirs might apply (and the explanation why). If I agree, then they add their proficiency bonus.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Like the PHB say, you can't find a key in a drawer with Perception unless you say "I open the drawer" to open the drawer.
But you can find the key with Investigation because rolling high enough "makes you open the drawer".

I don't agree with this exactly. How much activity and physically messing around with things do you assume with an investigation check and where does it stop? Suppose there was a key stuck to the bottom of a desk with a blob of wax? Would you assume that an investigation check meant that the PC upended the desk and found the key?

To further complicate things suppose you DO assume that, and the desk is trapped. If moved, a large block falls from the ceiling doing nasty damage to anyone underneath it. If you assume the check moves the desk and the trap triggers then the player might say " I never said I touched/moved the desk!"

For this reason I prefer to let the player tell me exactly what they are doing first, then determine the chances for any roll( if required at all) based on that info then assume actions and assign static DCs.