Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Someone told me there were no changes.
Even so, it's still clear from the context that it is referring to the action you take with the Ready Action, not the Ready Action itself.
D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024
- Thread starter ECMO3
- Start date
Even so, it's still clear from the context that it is referring to the action you take with the Ready Action, not the Ready Action itself.
Someone told me there were no changes.
Even so, it's still clear from the context that it is referring to the action you take with the Ready Action, not the Ready Action itself.
No it actually isn't. It is capitalized and referring to the action. Otherwise why would they capitalize it in the middle of a sentence like that? Are you suggesting this is an uncorrected grammar error? If so then it is still RAW because that is how it is "Written".
And like I said if we are concentrating on case "Ready Action" is not even a thing.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Because you use the Ready Action to Ready the Magic Action to cast a spell. That's why.
None of you have overcome the fact, and it is a fact, that Ready readies ANOTHER action, and not itself. If Ready were being used to cast the spell, you'd be Readying the Ready Action, which would mean that as a reaction, you'd be choosing an action to be a reaction.
But it does not have to be a "main action", it does not have to come from the list I posted above. The description gives two examples and neither of these use one of those 12 actions on the table.
When you ready a spell, the so called "action" you are readying for execution on the trigger is "release the energy" because that is what happens when the trigger occurs.
No the action you are readying occurs when the trigger happens (if you chose to use your reaction at that time). It is "release the energy" in this case, just like it is "pull the lever" in the first example given in the rules glossary and "I move" in the second example given in the rules glossary.
All three of these things are specifically mentioned in the rules glossary and none of them are on the table of the 12 main actions.
For us to conclude that you must choose one of the 12 main actions off the table is to accept that the two examples given as how to use the ready action can't actually be used.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
That's irrelevant. It can't be the Ready Action that you are Readying, which would be the case if Ready Action cast the spell.
The action is not release the energy, because spellcasting is also an action. That action doesn't vanish. Release the energy finishes the action.
Did you read what I posted. You are not Readying the Ready action and as I keep saying "Ready Action" is not a thing in 2024. I never said you are and you don't have to pick one of the actions off the table.
You cast the spell as part of Ready when you Ready a spell, the action you execute as a Reaction on the trigger is "release the energy"
Spell casting is not always an action, but that is besides the point.
In this case you cast the spell on your turn as part of using the Ready action on your turn. You ready to "release the energy" as the action when the trigger happens.
No it doesn't and if you believe this; what happens if I don't use my Reaction?
If I need to use my Reaction on the trigger to "finish" the Magic action and I don't use my Reaction then I never finish the Magic action ..... which means I never actually used the Magic action ..... which means I cast a spell without using the Magic action ... which is something you say I can't do ....
It is just like if I Ready Attack on my turn, but then I don't use my Reaction to Attack then I never used Attack. Things that trigger off of Attack (like Barbarian Rage for example) do not happen.
Last edited:
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Do you know what the difference between Ready Action and Ready is? The word Action. You're arguing a nothing burger.
You lose the action, and because you already cast the spell using the Magic Action on your turn, you lose the spell. Or in the case of the magic item, it simply doesn't get used.
You LOSE it, which is why you LOSE the spell. It's going to finish one way or the other. Use it or lose it. This is not rocket science man.
That last sentence is an interpretive proposal. It's not what the rules text actually says. What the rules text says is
You take the Ready action to wait for a particular circumstance before you act. To do so, you take this action on your turn, which lets you act by taking a Reaction before the start of your next turn. . . . When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it) but hold its energy, which you release with your Reaction when the trigger occurs.
Here's an alternative interpretation of that text: what one readies is the action that is performed as a Reaction when the trigger occurs - in this case, the release of energy. That is consistent with "wait[ing] for a particular circumstance before you act." Thus, when, as your action for your turn, you take the Ready action in order to Ready a spell, you ultimately perform 3 actions:
*The Ready action, which is one of the "main actions" in the game;
*Casting the spell as normal;
*Acting as a reaction, releasing the energy that you have been holding.
*Casting the spell as normal;
*Acting as a reaction, releasing the energy that you have been holding.
What do we make of that second action (casting the spell as normal)? The rest of the rules text for Ready doesn't help, because the rest of that text works on the basis that there are only 2 actions: Ready, and the readied action performed as a Reaction. Readying a spell is a departure from this structure.
The rules for the action economy don't help, because they say that you take only one action on your turn. So we're talking about an exception from those rules.
There are some rules elements that use the language of "as part of" - eg Divine Intervention says "As a Magic action, choose any Cleric spell of level 5 or lower that doesn’t require a Reaction to cast. As part of the same action, you cast that spell". But that language isn't used for the Ready action.
In my view, the clearest way of answering this question is to treat "casting the spell as normal" as performing the Magic action. That is consistent with the Casting Time rules:
Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required.
The second sentence in the Casting Time rules says that a spell's casting time entry specifies which of those - the Magic action, a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1+ minutes - is required. In other words, it treats the list as exclusive, not inclusive.
A spell, if it is to be readied, "must have a casting time of an action". From the exclusivity of the list of casting times, that means the Magic action.
Hence why, in my view, the most straightforward way of making sense of what action is performed when a character who is readying a spell "casts the spell as normal" is that the character performs the Magic action.
We don't analyze it to that level. RAI.
Did you cast (expend) a spell slot already? Then for this turn you can't expend another. (not by ready, not by action surge, not by whatever you come up with.
So no.
Are you using an item where you dont cast (expend) a spell slot? Then Action Surge or Ready all you want. (as long as the item doesn't say "cast").
IMHO.
Did you cast (expend) a spell slot already? Then for this turn you can't expend another. (not by ready, not by action surge, not by whatever you come up with.
So no.
Are you using an item where you dont cast (expend) a spell slot? Then Action Surge or Ready all you want. (as long as the item doesn't say "cast").
IMHO.
In my opinion, this is the weak point in your analysis. While it is true that the Ready action doesn't use the same "[a]s part of the same action" language as Divine Intervention, there are other abilities that don't use that language but which nevertheless allow spellcasting as part of another action. In particular, War Magic and Improved War Magic let you cast a spell "[w]hen you take the Attack action on your turn" (in place of one or more attacks) and the Valor Bard's Extra Attack lets you cast a spell "in addition" "[w]henever you take the Attack action on your turn" (also in lieu of an attack). Thus, I think it is unwarranted to conclude that casting a spell isn't part of the Ready action just because it doesn't use the same language as Divine Intervention.
Indeed, because the Ready action uses very similar language to War Magic and Improved Magic, the language used arguably better supports the opposite conclusion, that casting a spell is part of the Ready action. Specifically, the text of the Ready action states: "[w]hen you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal...," which is very similar to War Magic and Improved War Magic letting you cast a spell "[w]hen you take the Attack action." Sure, the language isn't an exact match, but it's very close.
I think it's much more straightforward to take "[w]hen you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal" at face value. The text outright says you cast the spell when you Ready it, and you (necessarily) Ready a spell by taking the Ready action. Ergo, you cast the spell by taking the Ready action. About as simple and straightforward as it gets.
By contrast, your reading of "[w]hen you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal" requires reading the text to implicitly allow an exception to the action economy rules (beyond what the Ready action already involves) to permit (and require) a character readying a spell to take both the Ready action and the Magic action in addition to a Reaction, via an argument that invokes the casting time rules. Sure, you've demonstrated that your reading of the text is plausible, but I certainly can't agree that it's the most straightforward!
Similar Threads
