using other people's characters

[shadow of death]

ok. we all know Re'shak is a mean nasty type that would kill anyone and anything for the hell of it. he has been in many other people's story lines and over all makes for a quality evil type. that being said, I would prefer if you wish to involve Re'shak, or even blame him for something, ASK ME FIRST! Apparently, a drow attacked a celestial "under the orders of Re'shak." I sign into WIZ, and am immediatly PMed about why I did this, whats going on, etc etc and so forth.

this would obviously apply to any characters being used or whatnot without the player's consent. come on folks, lets get the Encephalanalectomy over with and get on with RPing. next time ask.

player o Re'shak

 

[Andion Isurand]

Why should anyone need to ask you first OOC?

In this world, there exist people who use misinformation to cover their own butts.

Why should it not exist here?

If Re'shak is an infamous, notorious and disreputable individual, than it is an easy thing for anyone to pull his name up out of a hat when looking for ways to confuse others when perfoming similar acts.

You should learn to find him a thicker skin.

 

[Kathryn_aka_Kat]

And here we run into the distinction between inside and outside the game.

Inside the game, it's perfectly reasonable that someone would lie about who was behind the attack. And that others would judge based on their misinformation, and the one lied about would have the "fun" of trying to disentangle the truth from the lies. That's even a perfectly reasonable storyline to use on purpose.

But it's another thing to have the celestial's player angry at Re'shak's player outside the game for targeting their char for apparently no reason and with no OOC warning (and yes, some people expect that). And the celestial's player probably was complaining about it to other players too. Think about how you'd feel about the other player in a tabletop game if they suddenly said "I tell X to stab [insert your char's name here] in the back."

The problem isn't the damage to Re'shak's reputation, it's the damage to Re'shak's player's reputation.

 

[Tharivious_Meliamne]

Why should anyone need to ask you first OOC?

In this world, there exist people who use misinformation to cover their own butts.

Why should it not exist here? >snip<

I agree with Kat's response to that, being the IC/OOC issue, but there's also another problem as an aside to that.

To a certain degree, naming someone's character without their permission goes against the spirit of Freedom of Destiny in that they don't get a choice in the matter if you don't ask them first. This is especially true in this sort of matter as it could bring on fighs and attacks made against that named character that are unwarranted under the exact circumstances. It basically comes down to fair play right along with other aspects of freeform roleplaying; removing someone's choice in the matter just isn't fair in something that is a game rather than a percieved real world. If we try to fully apply real world logic such as the misinformation cover mentioned to a setting like Juxta/Oerth where a single person doesn't control everything and individuals have the right of choice, it would just bring up more problems than it would solve.

 

[Andion Isurand]

But it's another thing to have the celestial's player angry at Re'shak's player outside the game for targeting their char...

The celestial's player would then have lost track of the distinction between in game and out of game.

The problem isn't the damage to Re'shak's reputation, it's the damage to Re'shak's player's reputation.

Um, Kat, I think you lost track of your own distinction between inside and outside the game.

 

[Kathryn_aka_Kat]

Nope, I meant what I said and I said what I meant. But maybe it wasn't heard as clearly as I meant it.

Yes, you're right, the celestial's player would have lost track of the distinction. But people do that. And unless the drow said directly in a PM "my char is lying, Re'shak didn't say this" it would be very commonplace to think that the outside of the game matched the inside of the game.

The problem is one of perception. And the damage is outside the game, to Re'shak's player's reputation, if the celestial's player or other players now think he is a bad/evil/unfair *player* because of what was said and happened inside the game.

 

[Andion Isurand]

Ah, my mistake, well then...

It would seem the problem lies not with the prinicpal of "lying for cover", but rather the 'incorrect' OOC behaviors exibited in response to it.

 

[Fenmarel]

First off I have to say that the player of the celestial should have asked in the first place whether Re'shak's player had sanctioned the 'hit' or not. I also believe that even if the player of the celestial didn't ask the other player should have let it be known.

I've had similiar things happen to me where someone is saying they are attacking me on behalf of another ic and I ask them about it ooc to clarify. I've had some players that would readily tell me if their character was just 'blowing smoke' or if they were being truthful. I've also had other players that refused to let that information out for the sole purpose that the VAST majority of players on this site can't distinguish between IC knowledge and OOC knowledge. Many players use several different characters that surprisingly know ever little detail about their other characters including what they know, have seen, smelt or heard no matter how trivial or what have you.

Hmm seems I strayed off the subject a bit here. I don't think that someone should have to ask a player OOC if their character can lie using their character's name or description in some deception as long as they aren't going as far as making SN's that appear close to the original. As long as the players involved at the time know that it is a spoof all should be fine and dandy. Unless someone just doesn't want a particular player doing said actions I don't see a problem with it. I've seen people ask things like this before and it has even gotten as far as one player wanting people to ask his permission to even mention his character in any way shape or form.

If I want to deceive someone by saying another character hired my character or asked them to do a hit on someone even without the other player's permission I am going to do it. I'll make sure that the PLAYER knows the distinction. If I have to start asking permission for every little thing that my character might do or say what is the point of trying to roleplay? I play a couple of characters that lie about EVERYTHING to keep characters guessing about other's motives and actions and how they might effect them.

There are enough restrictions on this site as it is without having to play 'mother may I' with every single aspect of our character's lives. Hmm guess that is why a few others and myself have pretty much given up on this site and have moved on to other avenues of roleplaying enjoyment.

Jason

 

[Bhryn Astairre]

Just to clear certain particulars up:

I asked Re'shak's player about it, as we are very good friends, and he said he'd never actually heard of the character or even the player and would look into it. I do realise about ooc/ic but thought Re'shak's player would like to know that his character was being bandied about.

I know I personally would go through the roof if people abused my character's names, and I have done in the past when it was once or twice done.

Using other names to cover and foil plans is all very well, but with more varied comments OOC about it being used long term and the pm direct from the character with "(( You can blame Re'shak for this ))" I did kind of get thinking "hmmm...". I've seen only a few characters pull it off successfully, Rajak being the only one right now springing to mind and even then, those were mostly sanctioned.

It's not a case of "pinning the blame IC", but more that he "Pinned the blame OOC". Those are two completely different things and with completely different distinctions. I know a lot of people would have reacted the same way as I did and gotten angry, for AJ and not for my characters. Characters are characters, they come and go like the wind, after all.

Also, to point out another random fact here: AJ (Re'shak) and I are still talking and still the best of friends. Just because somethings goes balls up on Wizards does not affect OOC. If it did, I would assume that Becca and I would have long since stopped talking Again, probably one of those varied reasons why I really don't come to Wizards as often as I used to.

Nic x

 

[Eidrog]

Basically, what this comes down to is common courtesy. . . Which there seems to be a lack of sometimes in the ISRP.

However, having said that - I don't know what the right solution for this problem is. . . It should be perfectly fine for characters to lay blame on other characters. . . Even if it's lying. . . Not all characters are truth-telling angels, now are they?

In fact, I don't see any problem with the chaos that resulted from blaming Re'shak for ordering a Drow to strike a Celestial - It just has to be role-played properly. . . Characters should be asking other characters questions. . . Eventually word will get around that Re'shak is ordering attacks against Celestials! When Re'shak hears the news he should be choked! People are laying false blame on him for acts he didn't commit! He should jump into the action and try to figure out where this absurd nonsense came from and put a stop to it! It should be fun, and should try to be done In Character

It's reasonable, I suppose, for players to ask Re'shak OoC questions about the scenario. . . But all Re'shak's player has to do is say he honestly has no idea what's going on and is trying to get to the bottom of it. . . It's certainly not anything that players should be getting mad at each other for! . .

But that's just my opinion as to how it should have been played out - a lot of times players take in-character events personally, and quickly become offended. . . In the case of this situation, I don't know who to lay the blame on. . . Unfortunately, it sounds like an interesting situation that was just met with a poor reaction.

Eidrog