Vampire in play

[Ryujin]

Durable actually makes it a bit harder to gain those extra surges in order to regain full HP when you rest unless you don't use any. Just have two surges and having to worry about getting those back and some extra was easy enough but now with Durable your normal surges are now 4 instead of two so it's harder. Also wait until you get higher level and you gain a few more surges.

I'm not sure I follow on how it would make it more difficult, to gain extra surges. It seems to me that it wouldn't be any more difficult, while giving you an additional buffer for situations that go all pear shaped.

 

[Zaran]

Don't forget that if a companion gives a vampire healing surges three times they must mc to vampire themselves.

 

[KidSnide]

The vampire class is something that should be discussed with the group and the DM before bringing it to the table. I wouldn't advise just showing up at the table with a vampire and expecting everyone to be okay with it. Sure you have some groups that only focus on the mechanics and really don't care, but you also have groups that care about the role play and want characters coming in to actually fit the campaign.

In my opinion the designers created a controversial class.

Agreed. The designers absolutely created a controversial class that requires special inter-personal dynamics with the rest of the group.

That was the objective.

I don't think the designers wanted vampires who meshed seamlessly with ordinary adventurers. They wanted vampires who had a unique (i.e. dark, exploitive, icky and/or angst-ridden) relationship with their adventuring companions.

-KS

 

[ForeverSlayer]

I'm not sure I follow on how it would make it more difficult, to gain extra surges. It seems to me that it wouldn't be any more difficult, while giving you an additional buffer for situations that go all pear shaped.

Think about this for a moment. If your normal amount of healing surges is two and you use one, all you need to do is gain two in order to have extra.

Now, if you take Durable and you increase that amount to four and you use up three then you have to gain four in order to bring you to that extra limit.

 

[Ryujin]

Think about this for a moment. If your normal amount of healing surges is two and you use one, all you need to do is gain two in order to have extra.

Now, if you take Durable and you increase that amount to four and you use up three then you have to gain four in order to bring you to that extra limit.

And if you have two, but use three.....? Sorry, I just don't see it. As I said it's a buffer. As with Microsoft, "It's a feature, not a bug."

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The vampire class is something that should be discussed with the group and the DM before bringing it to the table. I wouldn't advise just showing up at the table with a vampire and expecting everyone to be okay with it. Sure you have some groups that only focus on the mechanics and really don't care, but you also have groups that care about the role play and want characters coming in to actually fit the campaign.

I think the biggest problem with the class is the requirement to feed from your companions. I don't understand why the rules weren't written a little different. I could see the vampire knocking an enemy unconscious and feeding from the victim after the fight is over, or Dominating say a towns person, taking just enough and then letting them go with no memory of it.

In my opinion the designers created a controversial class.

I think, the greater problem is, that you may want to have an all vampire party, but all of them would be more or less the same, and the drain surges from a member would be getting funny. mutual blood letting...

but as a single person in a not so good party, this class could work...

 

[Ryujin]

I keep getting this picture in my head of a party with 4 Vampire characters, and one 16 Healing Surge sword-and-board Fighter

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The vampire class is something that should be discussed with the group and the DM before bringing it to the table. I wouldn't advise just showing up at the table with a vampire and expecting everyone to be okay with it. Sure you have some groups that only focus on the mechanics and really don't care, but you also have groups that care about the role play and want characters coming in to actually fit the campaign.

I think the biggest problem with the class is the requirement to feed from your companions. I don't understand why the rules weren't written a little different. I could see the vampire knocking an enemy unconscious and feeding from the victim after the fight is over, or Dominating say a towns person, taking just enough and then letting them go with no memory of it.

In my opinion the designers created a controversial class.

I'd answer this two ways:

1) There's no REQUIREMENT that the character ever feed off his allies. His low healing surge number means there are probably going to be SOME situations where that is a good option. OTOH remember, he does have regen 5 while bloodied, so most of the time the character can lay back in that kind of situation if he really has to and avoid ever sucking on his allies at all. Taking toughness (and durable might help as well) doesn't TOTALLY mitigate the problem, but it goes a long ways. I mean there are classes that have 6 surges and no way at all to gain more, and they're perfectly viable. A Vampire with 4 surges, surges that work better than normal in some instances, the ability to get more surges, and regen 5 while bloodied is actually probably better off than your average wizard even BEFORE you talk about sucking on your allies. It really isn't that dependent on this one feature.

2) It is meant to be controversial, yes. As I've said in a lot of other places, and probably up further in this thread, a vampire that fails to embody the concept of a vampire merely because it would be inconvenient or is tricky to play or balance with other classes is fail. It isn't a vampire, so why even bother to make it? There's no point in having a Smurphpire class. A vampire needs to be a VAMPIRE to justify its existence as a game element. In any case you can take the Dhampyr bloodline feat, the Vryloka race, etc. and be a milder form of vampire if you want, which is fine. The Vampire class is "I'm Dracula baby".

As to how much hand wringing has to go into bringing it into a game, that will kind of depend on the group. Personally I'd feel slighted if the players all showed up at the table for a new campaign and singled out my choice of character as being an issue (regardless of what that choice was). OTOH there are dick players that will make a vampire simply to be troublesome as well. Reasonable players will accommodate each other's wishes. It shouldn't be a big deal most of the time, and if the DM has restrictions on what he wants to see played in his game, well those really should be up front.

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

The best thing to do is to quit bitching and moaning about the class design and just play one.

I have seen 5 different Vampires at levels between 1st and 8th level being played. And not one of them EVER had to borrow a surge from one of the players.

As a matter of fact no one of them ever used one of their 2 surges. They used the surge they gained from using one of their powers to empower a power but that is all.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

And if you have two, but use three.....? Sorry, I just don't see it. As I said it's a buffer. As with Microsoft, "It's a feature, not a bug."

When you have lots and lots of ammo you don't really bother to aim that well if you shoot something, but if you have only ten bullets you are going to choose carefully what you shoot and make your shots count.

By having only 2 surges you are careful about using them up to add the extra effects to some of your powers. Now if you have four, you become a little more active in using your surges because you know you have more to burn.

Having two and burning one is easy to get back, but if you have four and you burn three then thats a little bit harder.