Vampire in play

[ForeverSlayer]

I'd answer this two ways:

1) There's no REQUIREMENT that the character ever feed off his allies. His low healing surge number means there are probably going to be SOME situations where that is a good option. OTOH remember, he does have regen 5 while bloodied, so most of the time the character can lay back in that kind of situation if he really has to and avoid ever sucking on his allies at all. Taking toughness (and durable might help as well) doesn't TOTALLY mitigate the problem, but it goes a long ways. I mean there are classes that have 6 surges and no way at all to gain more, and they're perfectly viable. A Vampire with 4 surges, surges that work better than normal in some instances, the ability to get more surges, and regen 5 while bloodied is actually probably better off than your average wizard even BEFORE you talk about sucking on your allies. It really isn't that dependent on this one feature.

2) It is meant to be controversial, yes. As I've said in a lot of other places, and probably up further in this thread, a vampire that fails to embody the concept of a vampire merely because it would be inconvenient or is tricky to play or balance with other classes is fail. It isn't a vampire, so why even bother to make it? There's no point in having a Smurphpire class. A vampire needs to be a VAMPIRE to justify its existence as a game element. In any case you can take the Dhampyr bloodline feat, the Vryloka race, etc. and be a milder form of vampire if you want, which is fine. The Vampire class is "I'm Dracula baby".

As to how much hand wringing has to go into bringing it into a game, that will kind of depend on the group. Personally I'd feel slighted if the players all showed up at the table for a new campaign and singled out my choice of character as being an issue (regardless of what that choice was). OTOH there are dick players that will make a vampire simply to be troublesome as well. Reasonable players will accommodate each other's wishes. It shouldn't be a big deal most of the time, and if the DM has restrictions on what he wants to see played in his game, well those really should be up front.

Here is the problem. Wizard's is the one that singled out your character, not the group. They implemented a mechanic that essentially feeds off of the other characters and requires their cooperation.

So now it is your responsibility to let the other player's know and they can decide if they want to play with you or not, or if they will allow you to drain a surge.

The main point is, don't bring a vampire to a game and automatically expect that you will be able to play it. If the vamp didn't have that mechanic then there would be no problem.

 

[Blastin]

The best thing to do is to quit bitching and moaning about the class design and just play one.

This.....

although I guess all the angst and hand wringing in a thread about vampires shouldn't surprise me

 

[Ryujin]

When you have lots and lots of ammo you don't really bother to aim that well if you shoot something, but if you have only ten bullets you are going to choose carefully what you shoot and make your shots count.

By having only 2 surges you are careful about using them up to add the extra effects to some of your powers. Now if you have four, you become a little more active in using your surges because you know you have more to burn.

Having two and burning one is easy to get back, but if you have four and you burn three then thats a little bit harder.

Sorry, I'm just not going to agree with you. You are implying that having more resources somehow automatically results in poor decision making, or reduced options. Far from it.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

The best thing to do is to quit bitching and moaning about the class design and just play one.

I have seen 5 different Vampires at levels between 1st and 8th level being played. And not one of them EVER had to borrow a surge from one of the players.

As a matter of fact no one of them ever used one of their 2 surges. They used the surge they gained from using one of their powers to empower a power but that is all.

So we are supposed to just keep our mouth shut, pretend like everything is okay, and not point out things we don't like about a system?

Wow you are a corporation's best sucker......oh I mean friend.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Sorry, I'm just not going to agree with you. You are implying that having more resources somehow automatically results in poor decision making, or reduced options. Far from it.

Take a good look at the vampire. Okay, by spending surges you are able to boost certain abilities. Now, when you only have two surges you are less likely to use those surges unless you really really really feel that you need to, like most item daily powers.

Now the more surges you have the more comfortable you feel spending them on those abilities because by boosting your powers you contribute more to the combat and you have surges to burn.

Nobody said anything about having more resources automatically makes you more inclined to make bad decisions, but a good many people will be more inclined to take that risk.

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

So we are supposed to just keep our mouth shut, pretend like everything is okay, and not point out things we don't like about a system?

Wow you are a corporation's best sucker......oh I mean friend.

Thats funny I have both played a Vampire and seen several Vampires being played and do not have a problem with their design.

And neither my Vampire nor any of the Vampires I have seen played have ever taken Durable as a feat. Not even at later levels.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Thats funny I have both played a Vampire and seen several Vampires being played and do not have a problem with their design.

And neither my Vampire nor any of the Vampires I have seen played have ever taken Durable as a feat. Not even at later levels.

So because you say you had no trouble with the vampire then that means everything is okay?

Wow that deserves the ignore list.

 

[Incenjucar]

Thats funny I have both played a Vampire and seen several Vampires being played and do not have a problem with their design.

And neither my Vampire nor any of the Vampires I have seen played have ever taken Durable as a feat. Not even at later levels.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't really make for an argument, especially over... what has it been, a whole month since the vampire was released?

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

Actually play experience will trump number crunching and no play experience at all dont ya think?

You can argue until the sky falls by just reading it and numbers crunching it. But until you play or or observe it in play over a period of time you cant get a feel for how it works.

 

[Incenjucar]

Numbers can be compared more easily than individual games, due to a vast difference in how specific DMs and groups work. There are games in which knights don't have a hard time at all, but that certainly wouldn't be a game I was running - in my last session the fighter spent an entire encounter doing nothing because he neglected to pick up a throwing weapon - making him an honorary knight - and ran into a xivort netcaster. The same issues will hit vampires.