{Vampire: The Masquerade - OOC} New York by Night

[KitanaVorr]

Originally posted by Shalimar So what does everyone think? Is this reasonable, she isn't exactly a power house, so I don't really see it as a problem, and it fits her better then her current stats.

I agree, it does make alot more sense to me and I don't see a problem as the parents haven't been introduced yet or really mentioned.

 

[reapersaurus]

So what does everyone think? Is this reasonable, she isn't exactly a power house, so I don't really see it as a problem, and it fits her better then her current stats.

I think it sounds great, and anything that helps to better match "the atats" up to your concept of your character is a Good Thing by me.

 

[Festy_Dog]

So what does everyone think? Is this reasonable, she isn't exactly a power house, so I don't really see it as a problem, and it fits her better then her current stats.

Yup, I give it a thumbs up.

 

[KitanaVorr]

lol

geez festy not much for conversation is max?

EDIT:

That was probably the shortest scene in vamp history lol (probably not but it was damn short!) hehe

 

[reapersaurus]

OK, I've thought about this a LOT, and this is the culmination of hours of discussion and heartfelt consideration of the best way to say this:

Kitana -
I'm afraid that your taking the in character posts that we type too literally.
I might have finally put my finger on it when you typed this IN CHARACTER to Max:

Caitlyn blinked slightly as Max jumped into the elevator and leaving again after yet another quick conversation without letting her get another word in edgewise. Was this a habit with him? He had seemed like such a nice guy at the party when she had first met him and she really thought they could at least be friends.

That's not directed to Max - that's a comment to Festy, and it properly should be in the OOC thread, in my eyes. And that's the 2nd time at least that you've commented on your distaste for his posting style in character, as Caitlyn, not as Kitana in the OOC.

If you have advice, or recommendations for Festy, than I would hope that we'd feel free to mention them in the OOC thread. He seems like he'd be open to suggestions - maybe he'd appreciate some advice - he can always say, "Thanks, but no."
I think it's damaging in the long run to be so afraid to thoughtfully post our feelings about the game, and yes - even other players - at times.
But to comment on it IN CHARACTER is much more dangerous, and potentially damaging, in my eyes.
It breaks the 4th wall that we all struggle to maintain, and tends to blur the line between player and character - a line that in this game more than any other game on ENWorld... we should try mightily to keep clear, for all our sakes.

Perhaps - What happened earlier between Cait and Vych (the "shove", saying she was being rude, etc) I think all should have, and could have been avoided with one legendarily difficult thing to do:

Stop viewing what we type as being EXACTLY what our characters do.
Start viewing our character's actions and words thru the filter of what you know about the character.

It is considered to be a very hard thing to do, especially in Vampire: the Masquerade, due to its high component of social interaction.

Some examples:

1) Vych made her character as a master etiquette, formal party specialist.
She spent the points, and wrote the background. I think that her posts should be read with this in mind. Basically, my wife could not possibly be as refined and smooth as Vych (the character) is.
Just like if I'd play an 18 Intelligence wizard, I'd hope I wouldn't be required to roleplay as a genius to convince people of his brilliance.
So when she posted that Vych "took Cait by the hand and took Caitlyn aside", you could have read it as her doing it impeccably, as a person born to that world with those skills would.

2) As for Festy, I don't have Max's background memorized, but I think you can assume that Max (a CHARACTER Festy happens to play) didn't just hop on the elevator, not allowing Cait to get a word in edgewise.
Festy might have written it that way in a perhaps-hurried, or not-perfect post, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and think that he meant that Max finished up the conversation properly and just left without continuing it - Max was roleplayed as being uncomfortable about the scene.

3) Once vampiric powers are brought in (Presence, Dominate), it impacts even more how a player's posts would be perceived by the reader.

In general, I think I get what you're trying to do, as a writer with the way you play Caitlyn.
It's amazing what you're writing. Really.
The way you're stringing words together is commendable. I think some parts of this game so far could be chapters in a book, they're so good at various scenes.
But when you interact with other players that don't write the same way, it seems like there are conflicts of styles.

So what do you think about these ideas?
Do they make sense?
If not, please ask for clarification before taking offense.
If you want, we can talk about it off the boards if you wish, but I don't intend any malice, have nothing to hide, and would prefer to discuss things out in the open.

 

[Festy_Dog]

Oh, well sorry about that Kit . I'll edit the post to extend the conversation. And thx Reaper, I did feel a bit shoved OOC, I was just trying to rp Max's current state: he's in a hurry to meet the guy in the lobby and wants to get off Cait's mind so she doesn't press him 'bout the gun.

 

[KitanaVorr]

OK, I've thought about this a LOT, and this is the culmination of hours of discussion and heartfelt consideration of the best way to say this:

Kitana -
I'm afraid that your taking the in character posts that we type too literally.
I might have finally put my finger on it when you typed this IN CHARACTER to Max: That's not directed to Max - that's a comment to Festy, and it properly should be in the OOC thread, in my eyes. And that's the 2nd time at least that you've commented on your distaste for his posting style in character, as Caitlyn, not as Kitana in the OOC.

If you have advice, or recommendations for Festy, than I would hope that we'd feel free to mention them in the OOC thread. He seems like he'd be open to suggestions - maybe he'd appreciate some advice - he can always say, "Thanks, but no."
I think it's damaging in the long run to be so afraid to thoughtfully post our feelings about the game, and yes - even other players - at times.
But to comment on it IN CHARACTER is much more dangerous, and potentially damaging, in my eyes.
It breaks the 4th wall that we all struggle to maintain, and tends to blur the line between player and character - a line that in this game more than any other game on ENWorld... we should try mightily to keep clear, for all our sakes.

Perhaps - What happened earlier between Cait and Vych (the "shove", saying she was being rude, etc) I think all should have, and could have been avoided with one legendarily difficult thing to do:

Stop viewing what we type as being EXACTLY what our characters do.
Start viewing our character's actions and words thru the filter of what you know about the character.

It is considered to be a very hard thing to do, especially in Vampire: the Masquerade, due to its high component of social interaction.

Some examples:

1) Vych made her character as a master etiquette, formal party specialist.
She spent the points, and wrote the background. I think that her posts should be read with this in mind. Basically, my wife could not possibly be as refined and smooth as Vych (the character) is.
Just like if I'd play an 18 Intelligence wizard, I'd hope I wouldn't be required to roleplay as a genius to convince people of his brilliance.
So when she posted that Vych "took Cait by the hand and took Caitlyn aside", you could have read it as her doing it impeccably, as a person born to that world with those skills would.

2) As for Festy, I don't have Max's background memorized, but I think you can assume that Max (a CHARACTER Festy happens to play) didn't just hop on the elevator, not allowing Cait to get a word in edgewise.
Festy might have written it that way in a perhaps-hurried, or not-perfect post, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and think that he meant that Max finished up the conversation properly and just left without continuing it - Max was roleplayed as being uncomfortable about the scene.

3) Once vampiric powers are brought in (Presence, Dominate), it impacts even more how a player's posts would be perceived by the reader.

In general, I think I get what you're trying to do, as a writer with the way you play Caitlyn.
It's amazing what you're writing. Really.
The way you're stringing words together is commendable. I think some parts of this game so far could be chapters in a book, they're so good at various scenes.
But when you interact with other players that don't write the same way, it seems like there are conflicts of styles.

So what do you think about these ideas?
Do they make sense?
If not, please ask for clarification before taking offense.
If you want, we can talk about it off the boards if you wish, but I don't intend any malice, have nothing to hide, and would prefer to discuss things out in the open.

hmm

ok

1. I never write OOC stuff in IC posts. If its there, its there as a result of an IC action. I do find that you think that rather offensive. This should have been in a email to Barry and me, not posted on the boards.

2. The reason Caitlyn thought that about Max was because he had done it twice to her. When he dropped of his number and hurriedly left. Then he's rushing around now.

OOC-wise I know that Max has to get to his contact so he has a good excuse to rush by but IC-wise Caitlyn does not know that's the reason...she can only speculate.

OOC-wise I know that Max doesn't want Elizabeth to suspect he might be protective of Caitlyn so he can't linger, but IC-wise Caitlyn has no idea about Elizabeth. So if you react as you said, then I would be using OOC knowledge that Caitlyn should not know in my post.

My earlier post up there to Festy was to tease him about it, not to criticize him or anything. I perfectly understand that Max needed to rush off to meet his contact.

3. As I stated in an earlier post, Caitlyn does not know anything about Kindred ettiquette, she doesn't know anything about swiss ettiquette, or european ettiquette. She is only famliar with southern + asian ettiquette. What Vychtorya did is actually alright for the ettiquette she is familiar with BUT Caitlyn is a very strong-willed independent woman. She doesn't not like being physically moved anywhere especially by someone she doesn't know very well at all.

4. I only react to what you post, not your stats unless Barry does a roll or its something that stat-related like appearance. I prefer to roleplay-not stat play. I can only react to what is in your post. Caitlyn does not know your stats. Caitlyn can only see your actions.

5. Your character does not have to be perfect. Real people make mistakes from time to time no matter how well they know a topic. Mistakes are what makes a character interesting. Don't fret over it. This would be boring if we all played perfect people.

EDIT: As a good example, look at how Caitlyn was talking about finance earlier. She sounded pretty silly I bet, its because she has no points in finance. I, on the otherhand, know a great deal about finance but did not use OOC knowledge to make her look good. Caitlyn did something that made her look bad because she was nervous being around Nathaniel, Carrick, Vychtorya, Sabrina, Jemal all at once and she was trying so hard to please them that she messed up. When Caitlyn messes up, its because I intended for that to happen because she can't be perfect or she would be too boring to play.

 

[KitanaVorr]

Oh, well sorry about that Kit . I'll edit the post to extend the conversation. And thx Reaper, I did feel a bit shoved OOC, I was just trying to rp Max's current state: he's in a hurry to meet the guy in the lobby and wants to get off Cait's mind so she doesn't press him 'bout the gun.

AH no! don't do that!

Its fine the way it is. I was teasing you, I wasn't criticizing you =P blah

EDIT:
as I said I know OOC that Max needed to rush and he didn't want to be questioned, but there is no way Caitlyn could have known that was what he was doing so I had to react to it as if she didn't know

 

[KitanaVorr]

Festy

put it back! ;p

its fine the way it was, he'd be rushing anyway and wouldn't want to be in along conversation

 

[Festy_Dog]

Well.... if you insist, but now I gotta remember all the stuff I deleted!