Vengeful Parry trick?

[Samir]

So I just noticed that the Avenger e17 Vengeful Parry has a shift associated with it.

Vengeful Parry - Avenger Attack 17
Encounter • Divine, Weapon
Immediate Interrupt - Melee 1
Trigger: An enemy adjacent to you hits or misses you
Target: The triggering enemy
Effect: The target takes a -2 penalty to the attack roll.
Make the following attack against the target.

Censure of Unity: The penalty to the target's attack roll
equals your Intelligence modifier.
Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Wisdom modifier damage. You shift 1 square
and then slide the target 2 squares to a square adjacent to you.​

Say this triggers from somebody hitting you. Can you make your immediate interrupt attack, shift a square away from your attacker and then opt to not slide the target, leaving it two squares away from you and negating the melee hit entirely?

 

[KarinsDad]

No. Even if you slide it 0 squares, you have to slide it 0 squares to a square adjacent to you.

Actually, I just made that up. I'm not sure. This is a bit of a conundrum. I can easily see both this definition and the one where you don't slide it at all as being correct.

I suspect that WotC will rule that you can slide it 0 squares, even if not adjacent, but that is obviously not the original intent. From a RAW perspective, the trick probably works.

 

[Samir]

No. Even if you slide it 0 squares, you have to slide it 0 squares to a square adjacent to you.

Actually, I just made that up. I'm not sure. This is a bit of a conundrum. I can easily see both this definition and the one where you don't slide it at all as being correct.

I suspect that WotC will rule that you can slide it 0 squares, even if not adjacent, but that is obviously not the original intent. From a RAW perspective, the trick probably works.

This an important issue because it also affects an Avenger staple, the at-will Overwhelming Strike (which lets you shift 1 and slide the target 1 into the space you occupied). Common knowledge dictates that you can forgo the slide and simply shift 1 after the attack. Can you?

 

[KarinsDad]

This an important issue because it also affects an Avenger staple, the at-will Overwhelming Strike (which lets you shift 1 and slide the target 1 into the space you occupied). Common knowledge dictates that you can forgo the slide and simply shift 1 after the attack. Can you?

Yes. Overwhelming Strike allows the shift without the slide.

The only reason Vengeful Parry is questionable is because it does not appear that the intent is to totally avoid the incoming attack. The intent appears to be a counter-attack plus movement. So, it does not work by RAI. Once one allows the Avenger to totally negate the attack, it will almost never be used as it appears to have been written up and will almost always be used to counterattack and negate the incoming attack.

But, the trick does work per RAW. The "adjacent to you" statement does not override the "does not have to slide the creature" rule of Slide because it does not explicitly state that it does.

Course, it is a 17th level attack power. Negating an attack with it is probably ok. It's up to the DM of course, but it works via RAW.

This is probably one that WotC should clarify via errata.

 

[chitzk0i]

If you use this on a creature with reach, you won't be able to escape its attack. Also, if the triggering attack is a ranged attack or close burst 2 or more, you also won't be able to shift away. I guess the attack penalty is is for those situations.

 

[ValhallaGH]

It doesn't say can or may, it just says that you do stuff. Which tells me that it is non-optional; using this power, and meeting the various requirements, means you have to shift and you have to slide the target.

Good luck.

 

[KarinsDad]

It doesn't say can or may, it just says that you do stuff. Which tells me that it is non-optional; using this power, and meeting the various requirements, means you have to shift and you have to slide the target.

Good luck.

Not according to the PHB:

Whether you’re pulling, pushing, or sliding a target, certain rules govern all forced movement.

Distance in Squares: The power you’re using specifies how many squares you can move a target. You can choose to move the target fewer squares or not to move it at all.

 

[Journeymanmage]

Yes. Overwhelming Strike allows the shift without the slide.

The only reason Vengeful Parry is questionable ...

But, the trick does work per RAW. The "adjacent to you" statement does not override the "does not have to slide the creature" rule of Slide because it does not explicitly state that it does.

...

This is probably one that WotC should clarify via errata.

Doesn't need to explicitly state that it does. The general rule is:

You can choose to move the target few squares or not to move it at all.

The Power's specific rule, as part of the whole power, overrides.

The "Hit" line allows you to shift up to 1 space, the 2nd half of the same sentence allows you to shift the target up to 2 spaces >but< end >adjacent<.

 

[KarinsDad]

Doesn't need to explicitly state that it does. The general rule is:

The Power's specific rule, as part of the whole power, overrides.

The "Hit" line allows you to shift up to 1 space, the 2nd half of the same sentence allows you to shift the target up to 2 spaces >but< end >adjacent<.

Literally, it does not state that the foe must "end adjacent". That's a specific interpretation.

It states "slide the target 2 squares to a square adjacent to you". Literally, the only real limitation here is if the target is slid, he must be adjacent. It's a limitation on the slide, not a limitation on the shift.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Not according to the PHB:

Good point. I'd forgotten about that general rule.

I'm not sure if this specific rule exceptions it, though. Being exception-based, the exception is the key. Which means we (by which I mean, I and those that have similar thoughts regarding this power) will need a ruling from WotC to settle this question. Our DM's rulings will suffice for at the table, but to rule confidently as a DM, I'd like to see some official clarification.