Vindictive, fair DMing, or is 3.5 too Lethal ??

[Christopher Lambert]

Yikes. You're 12th level, and two of your saves are only +7? There's part of the problem...the DC24 save coming off a 16th level wizard isn't entirely unreasonable, but your save modifiers stink. At 12th level, I'd expect a PC to have some magical bonuses to his saves (via a cloak / vest of resistance, or some such), as well as at least one ability score that pumps a save to be above 18. (Edit: I re-read your original post; the +4 cloak of resistance helps, but do you really have +0 ability score modifiers on both Dex and Wis?)

A psychic warrior has to have Wisdom.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

My guess is enervation. It's a d4, though.

Except enervation applies negative levels, not Con damage. :\

 

[Kilroy]

Except enervation applies negative levels, not Con damage. :\

Yeah, it's a better precident for a d6 con ranged no save than poison is though. I happen to think Con drain is worse than negative levels, but it's iffy.

 

[takyris]

Well, if you're a character with 11 character levels and a Con of 26, you might disagree.

Of course, I don't know the Con of Sumi's character, so it's a moot point.

 

[Remathilis]

Maybe a modified version of ray of enfeeblement or touch of idiocy?

Honesty, you can't really complain till you died by a gorgon. Then roll up a new PC. Then introduce that PC, and get killed 5 rounds later...

... By the SAME GORGON!

That was in 2nd edition my friend.

Remember, a vindictive DM wouldn't have allowed saves.

 

[HeavyG]

I would beg to differ with the majority of your comments - the game *shouldn't* be run such that the PCs can stroll through encounters.

No, but when you run a group of 5 10th-12th level characters in an adventure meant for 15th level characters and then tweak the wizard's spell list to make him more deadly (I won't even try to guess what that wand is )...

I don't know, hard adventures are all right, but I wouldn't be surprised if PCs died left and right in that case. That particular adventure is already quite tough.

 

[mythusmage]

Why did you have to make multiple saves for the wall? The effects are resolved in order, and the first one Plane Shifted you. You would only be affected by the others if you made the Plane Shift save, which you didn't.

You've got a point there. A chap fails the first save he's no longer there to be affected by the rest of the wall. And shifting planes leaves things open for an adventure to recover the wayward soul.

Why would the DM run an unchanged +lots CR encounter for you, missing 1/3 of the party, when you had no way to know that the encounter was way over your level without serious metagaming? If you're in the sort of game where the DM kills characters because other players don't show up, rather than change the game, it's time to leave.

Here I must disagree. The whole thing about designing encounters around the party smacks of metagaming anyway. What a bad guy has in the way of help is best based on what's available to him according to area resources, and his resources. Which means the GM or adventure designer better have a good idea of what the immediate area is like.

What can the area support? Who is willing to work for the villain, directly or indirectly? Who makes for a better enemy or rival than assistance? In addition, consideration really should be made to what the villain is capable of in terms of obtaining useful items. Either through manufacture, purchase, theft, or some other means.

And lets not forget wear and tear. (How would you simulate that in D&D®?)

In other words, I do agree that the encounter was ill-designed, but for a very different reason.

 

[maddman75]

Sounds like your DM is playing a little fast and lose with the rules, and with the story.

How can a wand do a d6 con, at range, no save? Poison spell is range touch, allows a save, and is 4th level. Wands can't be higher than 4th level, so wands can't do that.

Those rules don't apply to DMs. Poof, its a wand that does d6 con damage at range, no save. It generally easier to just use the guidelines to keep from making something too broken (because the players can and usually will kill the guy who has it and take his stuff), but there's no need to limit your imagination like that.

How can multiple 10' creatures bullrush you through the same 10' door? You can't move diagonally through a doorway.

I suspect they weren't playing with minis.

Why did you have to make multiple saves for the wall? The effects are resolved in order, and the first one Plane Shifted you. You would only be affected by the others if you made the Plane Shift save, which you didn't.

I'll give you that one, unless the poster meant they failed the saves except the one that would have shifted him to safety.

Why would the DM run an unchanged +lots CR encounter for you, missing 1/3 of the party, when you had no way to know that the encounter was way over your level without serious metagaming? If you're in the sort of game where the DM kills characters because other players don't show up, rather than change the game, it's time to leave.

Depends on the DM's view of what metagaming is. To some, the encounter is what it is, and it would be metagaming for the DM to change it around.

Blocking the door sounds like just about the best place to be, otherwise the whole party would get flooded by golems.

Why would a DM hand a (presumably) LG party an encounter with a (known, however) CE wizard where the only viable option is for them to run errands for the wizard, without giving much indication that that was the case?

Dunno. Sometimes things make more sense from the other side of the screen.

As for character death & creation, the game I've been in for the last few years is very death light. It happens, a few times a year, but it's usually fixable (Resurgence is a great spell.) If I was in the sort of game where characters died often for stupid reasons, I'd revert to my old rule of spending half the time on character creation than the DM did on character destruction. Hello, Knuckles the Seventh.

Yeah, I've found that this kind of game sort of kills deep characterization. I'm contemplating plans to nearly eliminate PC death entirely.

 

[diaglo]

Sounds like your DM is playing a little fast and lose with the rules, and with the story.

on this point there is no doubt. the DR of the golems. the no ECL PCs. and so on...

How can a wand do a d6 con, at range, no save? Poison spell is range touch, allows a save, and is 4th level. Wands can't be higher than 4th level, so wands can't do that.

sounds like a homemade wand by the DM. which if the PCs kill the wizard will possess. it of course has limited charges i'm sure.

How can multiple 10' creatures bullrush you through the same 10' door? You can't move diagonally through a doorway.

my rulesfu is terrible, but i'll give it a go... if you don't succeed at the bullrush you are thrown back. the next golem comes at you from a different angle. or maybe the DM was using aids another and just did a poor job of describing it.

Why did you have to make multiple saves for the wall? The effects are resolved in order, and the first one Plane Shifted you. You would only be affected by the others if you made the Plane Shift save, which you didn't.

see your first point. sounds like the DM was using a different order of spells.

Blocking the door sounds like just about the best place to be, otherwise the whole party would get flooded by golems.

closing the door sounds even better.

Why would a DM hand a (presumably) LG party an encounter with a (known, however) CE wizard where the only viable option is for them to run errands for the wizard, without giving much indication that that was the case?

cuz the 16th wizard is in the dungeon of some GREat White WYrm... and probably wants to get the dragon off his back.

 

[jasper]

the only thing I have to add is me and one of my friend together have half your years of gaming xp. 50+ years and we both still have brain farts playing in dungeons and missing clues. Either it falls into not paying attention due going for food etc, or not listening to flavor text, or one of the hack slashers killing the white flag bearer. Your pc died with his boots on and his sword swinging be happy.
Also I am used to game style where the group may stumble into the lair of bbeg boss's boss's and be left wiser. (occasionally stripped, carrying our dead, and hopeing the rest of pc survive the trip back town so we can plot revenge)