D&D 5E Volo's Guide to Monsters - Which monsters do you want to see?

[Parmandur]

I wanted to see Tasloi in the book, but it looks like they weren't in that leaked TOC.

They gotta have something for subsequent books! Fairly shocked at how much they are getting into such a small space, really.

 

[Demetrios1453]

Yeah, the guard drake and the Kobolds are the only dlDragon-y bits; given that anything with "Dragon" in the title is a big seller, dollars to donuts if this book is a success, we get "Volo's Guide to Dragons" by the end of 2018, including Gem Dragons and the extra Chromatic and Metallic types with full ecologies; maybe even 5E version of the "Council of Wyrms" rules for playable Dragons?

I'm wondering if they may put the psionics and dragon stuff into one book. I can't see a full book dedicated to either given 5e's mission to cut the bloat and be as economical as possible with space. Gem dragons gives the perfect bridge to combine the two, after all. Perhaps there will be a "Volo's Guide to Magical Creatures" which will cover psionics as a form of "magic" (Volo being mistaken again, with Elminster along to correct that for us) and notable psionic creatures (so we'll get a thri-kreen chapter and racial write-up), as well as covering highly magical races in-depth such as dragons, fey, and drow...

 

[Demetrios1453]

Also interesting - none of the most FR setting-specific monsters made the book, like the phaerimm, sharn, or malaugrym.

But, as I said on the old "What would you like to see in a MM2" thread I just unashamedly resurrected, I got 25 of the 100 monsters I wanted to see updated, so I'm pretty happy with the selection we got...

 

[Parmandur]

I'm wondering if they may put the psionics and dragon stuff into one book. I can't see a full book dedicated to either given 5e's mission to cut the bloat and be as economical as possible with space. Gem dragons gives the perfect bridge to combine the two, after all. Perhaps there will be a "Volo's Guide to Magical Creatures" which will cover psionics as a form of "magic" (Volo being mistaken again, with Elminster along to correct that for us) and notable psionic creatures (so we'll get a thri-kreen chapter and racial write-up), as well as covering highly magical races in-depth such as dragons, fey, and drow...

Well, we are apparently getting the Psionics rules in the "major update" coming down the pipeline, probably for Christmas next year; I don't think they are going to do a followup to Volos that quickly, wait to see longterm feedback.

The "major update" looks, based on the UA articles trial balooning various ideas, to be something of a PHB2/DMG2, with elements of Unearthed Arcana, and probably some Mearlsian wild card elements. New Feats, new Spells, new Subclasses, new races, the Mystic, neo-Ranger and probably the Artificer. On the other hand, [MENTION=697]mearls[/MENTION] has been talking on Twitter about noodling out some new downtime variants, we had the total random character generation article recently and alternate encounter building guidelines. A little something for everyone, by the looks of it.

Now, a theoretical book on just Dragons? Totally could fill it to the brim, and it would sell too, particularly if it has food art value: introduce Gem Dragons with Ecologies, do Ecologies for all the Chromatic and Metallic Dragons (and I mean all, not just the classic ones), that's nearly Volo level size!

 

[Demetrios1453]

Well, we are apparently getting the Psionics rules in the "major update" coming down the pipeline, probably for Christmas next year; I don't think they are going to do a followup to Volos that quickly, wait to see longterm feedback.

The "major update" looks, based on the UA articles trial balooning various ideas, to be something of a PHB2/DMG2, with elements of Unearthed Arcana, and probably some Mearlsian wild card elements. New Feats, new Spells, new Subclasses, new races, the Mystic, neo-Ranger and probably the Artificer. On the other hand, @mearls has been talking on Twitter about noodling out some new downtime variants, we had the total random character generation article recently and alternate encounter building guidelines. A little something for everyone, by the looks of it.

Now, a theoretical book on just Dragons? Totally could fill it to the brim, and it would sell too, particularly if it has food art value: introduce Gem Dragons with Ecologies, do Ecologies for all the Chromatic and Metallic Dragons (and I mean all, not just the classic ones), that's nearly Volo level size!

I don't see a book totally dedicated to dragons in 5e. Why? Just look at its 3e counterpart in the Draconomicon.

Draconomicon is 288 pages, which is fairly substantially more than Volo's at 224. So, why not just prune some of the extraneous stuff and get it down to Volo's size? Simple - the book is mostly extraneous stuff! There are:

12 pages of dragon prestige classes (not in 5e)
19 pages of dragon feats, spells, and magic items (massively reduced in 5e)
13 pages of PC prestige classes (not in 5e, but some subclass types could take up a few pages)
18 pages of PC feats, spells, and magic items. (massively reduced in 5e)
and... a whopping 77 pages of examples of dragons of each type and age category. (age categories of which today we only have 4 of, not 12)

There are also several redundant dragons in the monster section (dracolich, faerie dragons. shadow dragon), as well as, well, just too many dragon-type creatures, to the point of draconic overkill.


What would be useful would be (although even here, some bloat could be cut):

51 pages on draconic lore.
9 pages on how to run dragons as a DM
12 pages on dragonish stuff for PCs (how to fight them, options for dragons as mounts/cohorts and even characters)

The monster section is 53 pages, let's say 30-ish or so is quality enough to update to 5e, and then throw in 15 more for the gem dragons not in the book.

So that gets us to about 120 pages, if one doesn't cut some out some of the extraneous lore. One could add in a few more pages of lore for the missing gem dragons, and then a few pages more detailing specific dragons, but to get to 224 pages of quality stuff is going to be hard. I'd much rather see a dragon book combined with some other concept to fill out a full book of quality, than have just a dragon book with 1/3 - 1/2 of filler material.

 

[Parmandur]

I don't see a book totally dedicated to dragons in 5e. Why? Just look at its 3e counterpart in the Draconomicon.

Draconomicon is 288 pages, which is fairly substantially more than Volo's at 224. So, why not just prune some of the extraneous stuff and get it down to Volo's size? Simple - the book is mostly extraneous stuff! There are:

12 pages of dragon prestige classes (not in 5e)
19 pages of dragon feats, spells, and magic items (massively reduced in 5e)
13 pages of PC prestige classes (not in 5e, but some subclass types could take up a few pages)
18 pages of PC feats, spells, and magic items. (massively reduced in 5e)
and... a whopping 77 pages of examples of dragons of each type and age category. (age categories of which today we only have 4 of, not 12)

There are also several redundant dragons in the monster section (dracolich, faerie dragons. shadow dragon), as well as, well, just too many dragon-type creatures, to the point of draconic overkill.


What would be useful would be (although even here, some bloat could be cut):

51 pages on draconic lore.
9 pages on how to run dragons as a DM
12 pages on dragonish stuff for PCs (how to fight them, options for dragons as mounts/cohorts and even characters)

The monster section is 53 pages, let's say 30-ish or so is quality enough to update to 5e, and then throw in 15 more for the gem dragons not in the book.

So that gets us to about 120 pages, if one doesn't cut some out some of the extraneous lore. One could add in a few more pages of lore for the missing gem dragons, and then a few pages more detailing specific dragons, but to get to 224 pages of quality stuff is going to be hard. I'd much rather see a dragon book combined with some other concept to fill out a full book of quality, than have just a dragon book with 1/3 - 1/2 of filler material.

So, one reasonn I could see a pure Dragon book, is that the Draconmicon was, as I understand ot, one of the bestselling books in the edition: sold like hotcakes, and the topic is big enough for the space: a cursory look at 10 Dragons the MM took up 10% of that book!

So, in VGtM, each of the 9 deep dive monsters get about 11 pages of material: I cursorily count 27 types of Drafons (11 Metallic, 10 Chromatic and six Gem), which at that rate would take up a wmbook the size of the 3E Draconomicon just with flavor and lairs! Because what I would like to see, is each type of Dragon getting extensive tables to ccreate an individual of that type (no confusing Bronze and Brass Sragons,!), with lairs for in game use. Maybe not all 27, like just 15-20 would probably be nice. Rules for playing Dragons, tables for Dragon hoards including special magic items, new spells for Dragon Magic...not to mention just stat blocks. I could see such a book being on one hand, very focused on Dragons, but also full of goddies: and it would probably make bank, and possibly even sell beyond the normal market for such a book because people love themselves some Dragons.

 

[Parmandur]

Sorry for the spelling; my phone cut off the page, so I couldn't actually see what I was writing, nor edit it (Tapatalk!).

Other line of thinking:

I could easily see a whole other book that follows the same format ad this, with other major baddies detailed, more playable races, and more new monster stats. A recent review said the book mentions on page 5 wanting to cover other monsters in future releases. What monster groups would be a good fit for a deeper look?

- Sahuagin seem an obvious choice: potential to be the baddies for a major campaign, and they have only covered the tip of the iceburg.

-Kuo-Tua seem like they would also be decent candidates: reserved IP, lots of character and potential for RP as well as combat experiences

- Drow, though they already largely feature in an AP release, would also be interesting and popular

- Genies, ogo into their culture and mindset would be fun.

- Ogres? Dunno if there is much of a story there...bit maybe?

- Lich, tables to create a really unique ancient undead wizard personality, and lair info, would be cool.

- Aboleth...because getting in their heads sounds like a solid plan.

- Vampires: again, help creating memorable individuals and building lairs would be cool.

- Cambions - fantastic Big Bads, what's their story?

- Bullywug?

- Lycanthropes could use more detail, specific guidance for PC usage.

 

[gyor]

I was disappointed no nymphs still.

 

[gyor]

Sorry for the spelling; my phone cut off the page, so I couldn't actually see what I was writing, nor edit it (Tapatalk!).

Other line of thinking:

I could easily see a whole other book that follows the same format ad this, with other major baddies detailed, more playable races, and more new monster stats. A recent review said the book mentions on page 5 wanting to cover other monsters in future releases. What monster groups would be a good fit for a deeper look?

- Sahuagin seem an obvious choice: potential to be the baddies for a major campaign, and they have only covered the tip of the iceburg.

-Kuo-Tua seem like they would also be decent candidates: reserved IP, lots of character and potential for RP as well as combat experiences

- Drow, though they already largely feature in an AP release, would also be interesting and popular

- Genies, ogo into their culture and mindset would be fun.

- Ogres? Dunno if there is much of a story there...bit maybe?

- Lich, tables to create a really unique ancient undead wizard personality, and lair info, would be cool.

- Aboleth...because getting in their heads sounds like a solid plan.

- Vampires: again, help creating memorable individuals and building lairs would be cool.

- Cambions - fantastic Big Bads, what's their story?

- Bullywug?

- Lycanthropes could use more detail, specific guidance for PC usage.

Fold Cambions with Succubi and Incubi and I agree, top choice for me. They are the fiends that need that treatment the most. Devil, Demons, Yugoloths, ect..., are basically the same 5e, but Succubi/Incubi/Cambions are free agents, and there is the question of where do beings like Brachina, Lilitu, ect... Fit into this new paradigm, as well as what are former Succubi/Incubi Kings/Queens now?

A group of Incubi and Succubi hiding in the Ethereal can build themselves a colony/Aerie there, breeding new Incubi, Succubi, and Cambions, unobserved by mortals, bidding they're time.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I was disappointed no nymphs still.

I was kind of surprised by that myself. I guess they figure we could reskin a medusa or a dryad into a nymph, but I would like a separate entry as it seems in between them.