D&D 5E Wandering Monsters: Morons and Salads

[Klaus]

If you google the term Eladrin, most websites are using it for 'extra-planar good aligned fey inspired outsiders'. The PC race just has less written about it. Eladrin didn't gain a lot of traction with the rewrite - the already familiar term elf just gained a synonym. Most people think 'elf' and treat it as such. The overwhelming majority of the images in a Google image search were creations of the WotC art department (and its subcontractors). All the image search shows is that WotC poured a lot more effort into the artwork of a PC race than it ever did into the artwork of an outsider. Is that a big surprise?

With the tailoring of results to a user's search history, Google only serves to reinforce a person's stance. For instance, I Googled "eladrin", and the ten first results were for the 4e race.

A lot of the talk about Slaadi and Modron here seem to assume that any change to these monsters will render them unrecognizable as their original self, and that need not be the case. Maybe they will get mere adjustments here and there, but nothing drastic. But we won't know until we see the end results (and WotC will probably ask out opinions before finalizing anything).

 

[I'm A Banana]

A lot of the talk about Slaadi and Modron here seem to assume that any change to these monsters will render them unrecognizable as their original self, and that need not be the case. Maybe they will get mere adjustments here and there, but nothing drastic. But we won't know until we see the end results (and WotC will probably ask out opinions before finalizing anything).

Subtle changes could be good. But making modrons just a lawful society removes some of their otherworldly alien-ness. Making slaadi Lovecraftian body-horror takes away some of their whimsical agenda of individual freedom. Some of the proposed changes are not so subtle.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Subtle changes could be good. But making modrons just a lawful society removes some of their otherworldly alien-ness. Making slaadi Lovecraftian body-horror takes away some of their whimsical agenda of individual freedom. Some of the proposed changes are not so subtle.

I don't think those were proposed changes so much as just gauging how the public felt about the existing critters and what they felt ought to be in the role of the poster children for each plane.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I don't think those were proposed changes so much as just gauging how the public felt about the existing critters and what they felt ought to be in the role of the poster children for each plane.

Good point, one probably shouldn't take limited poll options of a few thousand people too seriously, and the article is trying to get a reaction, not just lay out ideas.

 

[steeldragons]

Well, tangentially, since it is relating to "outsider" races, though not modrons or slaadi, Eladrin need to burn in a celestial fire and return to their archonic [is that a word?], or maybe "archetypal" is a better term [?]. And this is coming from someone who could give two hoots and hardly ever used extraplanar beings.

"Elfier elves" was a direct, ridiculous and comPLETEly unnecessary change. Not to mention, since they did it anyway, they MIGHT have wanted to know what they were talking about...You are replacing GREY elves with that. The more reclusive elves. The more magical elves. A.k.a. the more "Galadriel-esque/Lothlorien" elves, NOT HIGH elves a.k.a. the Elves everyone had been playing since BD&D!

Grrrrrr....smooths hackles....smooths hackles...deep breath...deep breath.

MAYbe, just maybe, if they'd called them the "Sidhe" instead of "Eladrin" and gave them the same backstory/abilities...I wouldn't have such a visceral NEGATIVE reaction to them. But "Eladrin = High elves"? Not in my universe. Not no way. Not no how. Never!

As GODS are my witness, I shall NEVER has Eladrin "elves" in my world...evar!

I shall, however, "has cheeseburer" anytime one presents itself. Nom.

/rant
--SD

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I am not a 4E fan, but you're missing their intent with the Eladrin thing, [MENTION=92511]steeldragons[/MENTION]. Their goal was to just have playable options for both styles of elves: magical elves and woodland archers. High elves had always tried to bridge the gap between the two of them, but that's not how early 4E races and classes were designed: Everything in the PHB1 was a specialist, by design. So high elves are an anachronism and gray and wood elves become the default.

But since they were also trying to shake off all the vestiges of Tolkien (which is probably not a terrible idea, given that there's a well-regarded Tolkien RPG out there and there's no need to antagonize any lawyers) -- see what happened to the poor halflings -- "gray" elves were also a pretty obvious thing to change.

Ironically, as a longtime shorty fan, I wish they'd carried this attitude to the halfings and gnomes, and just merged them into gnomes, maybe with some kender attributes, too. We would have skipped the spectacle of dreadlocked river halflings and gotten a well-rounded single race by killing the previous three shorties and giving the "short, tricksy, community-minded" portfolio to the gnome race.

 

[avin]

Something that made me and a lot of guys dislike early 4E fluff was the "dungeon everywhere" kind of mentality, where every corner of the universe should be available for exploration - thus we had Elemental Chaos and it took a while until Wotc started to be more clear about pure elemental zones and pure elementals showed up...

My point is, not every part of this game will fit everybody's taste, there will always be unexplored parts of fluff and that's fine. I'm not a big fan of halflings and gnomes, they were never a major part of any homebrews I run, but they are there for those who want them, as Modrons should be there too.

On the other hand, I must be fair here, 4E Fomorians make me love them, but who knows how many people were pissed by that change as [MENTION=92511]steeldragons[/MENTION] was with elves changes and I'd be with Modron's.

PS Peter Lee has promised a Modron miniatures if they appear in 4E, and they eventually did, so I want my Modron!

 

[Celebrim]

With the tailoring of results to a user's search history, Google only serves to reinforce a person's stance. For instance, I Googled "eladrin", and the ten first results were for the 4e race.

Yeah, I temporarily forgot about the fact that Google is evil. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Quickleaf]

Considering that modrons & Slaadi had their strongest showing in Planescape, a setting with an artistic theme crossing Cirque du Soleil and The Necronomicon, I would describe them as fringe elements in D&D. Probably the best thing to do with fringe monsters of the game is to present them in MM2 or MM3 (or whatever the equivalent will be for 5e) in a "true to their roots" form that maintains their whimsy.

That said, I think both monsters have had enough undefined or ambiguous things (e.g. Modron's aphasia toward other modrons more than a caste above them), that there is some room for interpretation or re-imagining. For example, what if mortals suffer aphasia when confronting modrons? Whimsical doesn't mean they can't be terrifying and nasty.

I recall both races being linked to their respective planes very closely, so to an extant it depends on how 5e treats Mechanus and Limbo. For example if Limbo is not there, I could easily see Slaadi turned into an H.R. Giger-esque nightmare from the Far Realm driven by some strange imperative to multiply their numbers. As long as their whimsical lucid non-violent moments of madness were retained, I could still use them at the table and feel like I was using a Slaad.

Likewise with modrons, the "traumatic promotion" aspect (going from monodrone to duodrone involving a wrenching shape-change & paradigmatic shift) could become a defining element of the modron's quest for mathematical perfection...What if the entire race reflected mathematical ideals and their self-transformation became the built-in tension that the ultimate Lawful Neutral society is designed to cope with? That could be an interesting take, so long as quirky rogue modrons with mathematically punning names and Apple IIGS voices are still possible.

Actually, after reading [MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION]'s take on the Slaadi, I think "aphasia" might be a good angle to take both races. Slaadi experience aphasia toward pretty much all other life forms - they can't explain it because of their general inability to distinguish fantasy from reality. Modrons on the other hand are so regimented that their field of mental perception narrows to include only a limited bandwidth of reality.

What would be interesting is if both these monsters could "inflict" this aphasia on mortals in some way, in essence sharing their point of view. So, a mortal implanted by a Slaad begins to experience aphasia toward other life forms. A mortal facing the Modron March might suffer lingering aphasia afterward. Just a thought.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Something that made me and a lot of guys dislike early 4E fluff was the "dungeon everywhere" kind of mentality, where every corner of the universe should be available for exploration - thus we had Elemental Chaos and it took a while until Wotc started to be more clear about pure elemental zones and pure elementals showed up...

Elemental Chaos is a lot more gameable than much of the Great Wheel. (I love me some gnomes, but Bi-Topia doesn't scream out for use in a game.)