D&D 5E Wandering Monsters: Morons and Salads

[zoroaster100]

I've always found slaad funny. Beings of pure chaos that are color coded by potency, and follow the exact same path of raising power. Chaos in D&D doesn't know its already lost. Even chaos incarnate follows the whims of an ordered multiverse.

Yes, this is why I never lacked slaadi. They seemed totally unfitted to represent pure chaotic neutral. I'm fine with keeping them in the game but just as another monster type that has found a place to live in the outer planes. They need something better to represent chaotic neutral in the way demons represent chaotic evil or devils represent lawful evil, etc.

 

[GX.Sigma]

They need something better to represent chaotic neutral in the way demons represent chaotic evil or devils represent lawful evil, etc.

I like chaos beasts. They turn their victims' bodies into chaos matter (which will melt and boil away unless they concentrate on maintaining it). This deals no physical damage, but destroys the victim's sanity until, at the end of their wits, they become a part of Limbo: "mindless, bodiless horrors of the plane."

That's what I call body horror.

 

[GSHamster]

While Planescape is one of my favorite settings and I love DiTerlizzi's work, I think that his whimsical, goofy style of modron is probably not appropriate for standard D&D. I think there are plenty of talented artists that could give the cyborg modrons a slick revamp while still retaining their traditional polyhedral shapes. Need to put Jon Schindehette's Art Order group on this!

On the other hand, how often do modrons show up in standard D&D?

I think there's room for the goofy, whimsical style of modrons, given that they're very rare, and as a nod to the game's history (and a beloved setting).

 

[Li Shenron]

Modrons and slaadi are among my least-favourite D&D monsters. Modrons: beings of pure order, that become interesting only when they go rogue against that order. Slaadi: being of pure chaos, but categorized by colours and regimented by strict rules of how and when they transform.

I couldn't care less of what happens to these monsters in 5e, and yet I hate the attitude of always wanting to reinvent things so that people can buy again the same book for the 5th time.

As much as I don't like them, make them more iconic than ever.

 

[MarkB]

I'd kind of like to see their appearance being reworked (more clockwork, but Geiger-inspired as being an amalgam of flesh and machinery. Still basically geometric in overall shape, but both more beautiful and frightening at the same time. The modron things adventurers run across should primarily be the "warriors" of the race).

I like that concept.

One possibility I was thinking of was making them somewhat like those rolling Droideka droids from the Star Wars prequels - they move around in polyhedral form when travelling between tasks, but when working or fighting they unfold to reveal a more complex form, somewhat like a steampunk cyborg, but not humanoid in appearance.

 

[Shemeska]

Agreed. Go with the classic versions of these iconic and underappreciated monsters.

Absolutely.

They already ran into the problems of trying to radically redefine classic D&D monsters numerous times in 4e, and well, here we are now only a few years later with a new edition. This time around they need to keep the game's history and lore continuity respectfully in mind.

 

[Shemeska]

Also, they seriously need to ratchet back the Far Realms ideas. They went somewhat overboard already in 4e with making far too many things created by or influenced by Lovecraft-land, and dear God they don't need to go further down that road and put that influence into the Slaadi. The Far Realms aren't Chaos. Chaos is the not the Far Realms.

And I say this as a seriously hardcore fan of Lovecraft: step back on trying to push it into places where it doesn't belong.

 

[Klaus]

I like that concept.

One possibility I was thinking of was making them somewhat like those rolling Droideka droids from the Star Wars prequels - they move around in polyhedral form when travelling between tasks, but when working or fighting they unfold to reveal a more complex form, somewhat like a steampunk cyborg, but not humanoid in appearance.

Y'know, that ain't a bad idea.

As for color-coded slaadi: one way to make them chaotic is to determine that they randomly turn into another type. Mortals have categorized them, but that categorization is meaningless because they move up and down the power ladder with no pattern.

 

[Celebrim]

I like chaos beasts. They turn their victims' bodies into chaos matter (which will melt and boil away unless they concentrate on maintaining it). This deals no physical damage, but destroys the victim's sanity until, at the end of their wits, they become a part of Limbo: "mindless, bodiless horrors of the plane."

That's what I call body horror.

One danger that has to be avoided when developing the idea of a being of pure chaos is making them too monstrous so that they are functionally no different from a demon. Beings of pure chaos are equally creative and destructive beings. They aren't merely agents of horror, which would make them demons, nor agents of nihilism (which would make them NE). There is a real and meaningful distinction between CN and CE, and a real meaningful distinction generally between chaos and evil.

I don't mind the frog/toad body play, because frogs change shape and evolve as they grow. That's chaotic. The problem with Slaad isn't that they aren't monstrous enough. The main problem is that they aren't individualized enough. I try to address that with the concept of 'Slaad Cults' in my reimagining of the Slaad (see link in signature). I even have a way to address the existence of the 'orthodox' toad cult in a way that explains it as a problem of retaining individuality and self identity. I don't reject the existence of some sort of order, because simple metagame requirements inevitably require some sort of order to explain them. What I reject is the existence of organization on the basis of a social order. Slaad can have rudimentary organization, but it has to be on the basis of pure self-interest and whim. Any apparant organization has to turn out to be the result of some chaotic process - for example the Slaad Cults in my document manifest out of the need to rebel. Rebellions tend to bring people together out of self-interest. The 'orthodox' cults manifest out of the self-interested need to survive, and it persists because there are very central problems of identity that any being that embodies chaos has - if you are always changing are you still you, and if you are always evolving, what are you evolving into? Individuality and indentity are part of 'chaos'.

The slaad are a little slightly less than pure chaos. They are nearly perfectly chaotic beings trying to retain their identity in chaos. They have, at least as I've envisioned them, adapted a method for retaining that identity in the face of a crisis of need - an ever present threat of complete destruction of self. Chaos itself; and in the yet unrevealed portions of the deep dark of Slaad lore, that's is revealed to be quite literally the problem.

I should also say that I believe that chaos is best represented by having at least TWO distinct chaos races. The Slaad embody chaos more destructive tendencies. I think that they should be balanced by a second incarnate race that embodies its more creative tendencies - a sybarite artisan race that farts rainbows and pukes flowers. Quite possibly they are the same race, just dealing with the same problem in their own ways.

 

[gyor]

I agree that Slaads need a greater element of chaos and for thier behavior to not confuse chaos with evil. They should show bouts of kindness intermixed with cruelty and even simple odd behavior.

I remember something the would help explain the oddness of orderly creatures of chaos and that is that the order as such is artifically imposed by the Slaad Lords who kill any mutantions of Slaad they see as a potiential threat to thier power or that they simply don't like.

This way only the stronest and most cunning mutations make it to evolve into a new Slaad Lord instead of the multiverse overflowing with Slaad Lords and dangerous new Slaad races. Maybe Modrons and Inenvinitables also hunt down unauthorized mutations as well, to keep the threat of the Slaads managable. So the orderly hierachy is not natural at all, but exernally imposed.